SUMMARY: Examination of vote totals across ~6,000 Florida precincts during the 2016 presidential election shows that a 1st digit Benford’s type analysis can seem to suggest fraud when precinct vote totals have both normal and log-normal distribution components. Without prior knowledge of what the precinct-level vote total frequency distribution would be in the absence of fraud, I see no way to apply 1st digit Benford’s Law analysis to deduce fraud. Any similar analysis would have the same problem, because it depends upon the expected frequency distribution of vote totals, which is difficult to estimate because it is tantamount to knowing a vote outcome absent fraud. Instead, it might be more useful to simply examine the precinct-level vote distributions, rather than Benford-type analysis of those data, and compare one candidate’s distribution to that of other candidates.
It has been only one week since someone introduced me to Benford’s Law as a possible way to identify fraud in elections. The method looks at the first digit of all vote totals reported across many (say, thousands) of precincts. If the vote totals in the absence of fraudulently inflated values can be assumed to have either a log-normal distribution or a 1/X distribution, then the relative frequency of the 1st digits (1 through 9) have very specific values, deviations from which might suggest fraud.
After a weekend examining vote totals from Philadelphia during the 2020 presidential primary, my results were mixed. Next, I decided to examine Florida precinct level data from the 2016 election (data from the 2020 general election are difficult to find). My intent was to determine whether Benford’s Law can really be applied to vote totals when there was no evidence of widespread fraud. In the case of Trump votes in the 2020 primary in Philadelphia, the answer was yes, the data closely followed Benford. But that was just one election, one candidate, and one city.
When I analyzed the Florida 2016 general election data, I saw departures from Benford’s Law in both Trump and Clinton vote totals:
For at least the “3” and “4” first digit values, the results are far outside what would be expected if the underlying vote frequency distribution really was log-normal.
This caused me to examine the original frequency distributions of the votes, and then I saw the reason why: Both the Trump and Clinton frequency distributions exhibit elements of both log-normal and normal distribution shapes.
And this is contrary to the basis for Bendford’s Law-type analysis of voting data: It assumes that vote totals follow a specific frequency distribution (lognormal or 1/x), and if votes are fraudulently added (AND those fake additions are approximately normally distributed!), then the 1st-digit analysis will depart from Benford’s Law.
Since Benford’s Law analysis depends upon the underlying distribution being pure lognormal (or 1/x power law shape), it seems that understanding the results of any Benford’s Law analysis depends upon the expected shape of these voting distributions… and that is not a simple task. Is the expected distribution of vote totals really log-normal?
Why Should Precinct Vote Distributions have a Log-normal Shape?
Benford’s Law analyses of voting data depend upon the expectation that there will be many more precincts with low numbers of votes cast than precincts with high numbers of votes. Voting locations in rural areas and small towns will obviously not have as many voters as do polling places in large cities, and presumably there will be more of them.
As a result, precinct-level vote totals will tend to have a frequency distribution with more low-vote totals, and fewer high vote totals. In order to produce Benford’s Law type results, the distribution must have either a log-normal or a power law (1/x) shape.
But there are reasons why we might expect vote totals to also exhibit more of a normal-type (rather than log-normal) distribution.
Why Might Precinct-Level Vote Totals Depart from Log-Normal?
While I don’t know the details, I would expect that the number of voting locations would be scaled in such a way that each location can handle a reasonable level of voter traffic, right?
For the sake of illustration of my point, one might imagine a system where ALL voting locations, whether urban or rural, were optimally designed to handle roughly 1,000 voters at expected levels of voter turnout.
In the cities maybe these would be located every few blocks. In rural Montana, some voters might have to travel 100 miles to vote. In this imaginary system, I think you can see that the precinct-level vote totals would then be more normally distributed, with an average of around 1,000 votes and just as many 500-vote precincts as 1,500 vote precincts (instead of far more low-vote precincts than high-vote precincts, as is currently the case).
But, we wouldn’t want rural voters to have to drive 100 miles to vote, right? And there might not be enough public space to have voting locations every 2 blocks in a city, and as a results some VERY high vote totals can be expected from crowded urban voting locations.
So, we instead have a combination of the two distributions: log-normal (because there are many rural locations with few voters, and some urban voting places that are over-crowded) and normal (because cities will tend to have precinct locations optimized to handle a certain number of voters, as best they can).
Benford-Type Analysis of Synthetic Normal and Log-normal Distributions
If I create two sets of synthetic data, 100,000 values in each, one with a normal distribution and one with a log-normal distribution, this is what the relative frequencies of the 1st digit of those vote totals looks like:
The results for a normal distribution move around quite a lot, depending upon the assumed mean and standard deviation of that distribution.
I believe that what is going on in the Florida precinct data is simply a combination of normal and log-normal distributions of the vote totals. So, for a variety of reasons, the vote totals do not follow a log-normal distribution and so cannot be interpreted with Benford’s Law-type analyses.
One can easily imagine other reasons for the frequency distribution of precinct-level votes to depart from log-normal.
What one would need is convincing evidence of that the frequency distribution should look like in the absence of fraud. But I don’t see how that is possible, unless one candidate’s vote distribution is extremely skewed relative to another candidate’s vote totals, or compared to primary voting totals.
And this is what happened in Milwaukee (and other cities) in the most recent elections: The Benford Law analysis suggested very different frequency distributions for Trump than for Biden.
I would think it is more useful to just look at the raw precinct-level vote distributions (e.g. like Fig. 2) rather than a Benford analysis of those data. The Benford analysis technique suggests some sort of magical, universal relationship, but it is simply the result of a log-normal distribution of the data. Any departure from the Benford percentages is simply a reflection of the underlying frequency distribution departing from log-normal, and not necessarily indicative of fraud.
“What one would need is convincing evidence of [what] the frequency distribution should look like in the absence of fraud. But I don’t see how that is possible, unless one candidate’s vote distribution is extremely skewed relative to another candidate’s vote totals.”
One simple option is to look at history. If a given precinct was 40% for Republicans 4 years ago and 20% now, that is useful evidence. (Of course, there are other factors. if the whole city went from 35% to 25%, then 40%$ to 20% in one district is not so surprising. And boundaries change, so the precinct itself could have changed).
Also, if the order of the votes is recorded, then 100 consecutive extra votes for one candidate would be a red flag. It might indicate someone running the same ballot through 100 times in a row.
because there is no way to know if a mail in ballit is real they will not count. trump wins. biden says he will add enough democrats to the suprems to give the democrats the majority. the repubacans on the suprime court probaly will not let that happen. trump wins.
there is no appeal of the supreams. trump wins.
☺
Yes, I can imagine a variety of things to look for. But nothing beats eyewitness evidence in signed affidavits from poll watchers and workers, as is now coming out in Detroit.
Well, eyewitnesses are actually not nearly as reliable as people think. They interject their own biases (whether consciously or subconsciously) and their memories are often a bit malleable. And sometimes they outright lie.
I am sure there are instances of problems — from fraud to clerical errors to poorly-trained volunteer poll-workers who misunderstand the rules. But when I read things like
I am not convinced that the problems rise to a sufficient magnitude or sufficient level of illegality to overturn results in multiple states to give Trump a win.
Maybe a ‘smoking gun’ will still show up, but we haven’t seen it yet.
It would take some guts for an observer to lie on an affidavit.
Far more likely, flat out hubris and stupidity……..
Perhaps a meth habit
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/postal-worker-fabricated-ballot-pennsylvania/2020/11/10/99269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html
Or, it takes a desire for attention. After any (real or imagined) crime there are always many people willing to submit, under penalty of perjury, false eyewitness reports. Trumps own lawyers rejected more than half of the affidavits they received as obviously false, according to courtroom transcripts. That’s a good chunk of people that were willing to perjure themselves just to say they were involved.
Trump is naturally laser focused on ‘fraud’ in big cities but he actually did slightly better in these cities than historically. His real problem was in the suburbs..
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/dont-blame-fraud-dwindling-suburban-support-lost-michigan-trump
tim…”eyewitnesses are actually not nearly as reliable as people think”.
Tim…the point is that something stinks and an investigation is required. It has just been revealed that the Canadian company who supplies voting machines in key states are using software supplied by a company that specializes in rigging Third World elections.
When Biden can make up 500,000 votes in Pennsylvania based on mail-in ballots alone, I’d cry foul. That’s the state where the Democrat governor swore that Trump would never win there.
“When Biden can make up 500,000 votes in Pennsylvania based on mail-in ballots alone, Id cry foul.”
Why? Republicans avoided mail-in ballots like the plague and Democrats avoided day-of voting like the plague (very literally like it, in fact). Everyone who knew even a bit about it expected Trump to dominate in day-of voting and Biden to dominate in mail-in voting. That’s not fraud, it’s just different preferences about when to vote between the parties.
“It has just been revealed that the Canadian company who supplies voting machines in key states are using software supplied by a company that specializes in rigging Third World elections.”
It was revealed by a single anonymous post on a conspiracy forum. That’s it, that is literally 100% of the evidence for this claim. Do you have any additional evidence? Not “claim” but “evidence”. I doubt it.
“the point is that something stinks and an investigation is required”
That sums up the quality of evidence for the scattertshot legal challenges tro the election.
“But nothing beats eyewitness evidence in signed affidavits from poll watchers and workers, as is now coming out in Detroit.”
‘Now coming out’ ???
https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/12/lawsuit-claims-40000-plus-fraudulent-ballots-pumped-through-detroit-for-joe-biden/
Dr. Spencer: When you write about climate science, you come across as honest and open, objective, and with an appropriate level of skepticism. Your statements are typically well-nuanced too. (You also explain it very well, which also gives you high credibility with me.) But when you write about politics, you often don’t sound very objective, and your level of skepticism here on the affidavits, and general allegations large-scale fraud, seems woefully short.
CM…”But when you write about politics, you often dont sound very objective…”
You’re the one who is not being objective, you are simply regurgitating the biased opinions of fake news outlets.
I am a socialist, not the Russian Bolshevik fake-socialists, but one of the kind who fought in unions for freedoms and benefits many people now take for granted. Trump’s economic policies are the opposite of mine but I can live with those differences because we agree on democracy and with regard to global warming and the covid virus nonsense.
Trump is not as dumb as he is portrayed, he has a gut instinct for politics and he knows how to get across his message to people. The world needs this guy to have another 4 years rather than the politically-correct Democrats who will screw this world over.
The Democrats have been whining since 2016 and have gone to extreme measures to get rid of Trump. Do you seriously think they would not jump at the chance to rig an election after the despicable manner in which they conducted themselves the past 4 years?
Yes, the two of you are very stable geniuses.
Ugggh
Partisan hacks in desperation mode filing the void..
Isnt it odd that the Trump campaign’s own lawsuit fails to mention this accusation.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/11/trump-campaign-lawsuit-over-detroit-vote-counting-process/6243218002/
nate…there was no software glitch in Antrim County, the error (glitch) was human. The question is, how many of those errors are there? Trump has a right to know and the Democrats are desperate that he not find out.
If he’s so desperate to find out, why is he not asking the courts? He asks on Twitter and his lawyers ask in press conferences, but they have yet to bring it up in court. Don’t believe me? Read the transcripts, for example:
Giuliani (PA): This is not a fraud case.
Langhofer (AZ): Were not alleging fraud in this lawsuit.
Why is that do you suppose? Is it because you can be found in contempt or guilty of perjury in court but not at a press conference?
No, that can’t be it, it must be because… (fill in your preferred excuse).
According to who? Q?
You are being conned.
https://local12.com/news/nation-world/no-a-red-wagon-did-not-smuggle-invalid-ballots-in-detroit-presidential-election-donald-trump-joe-biden
many such claims debunked, but they will keep coming.
Just coming out…….. but certainly not in this blog!
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/kris-kobach-and-search-mythical-voter-fraud/617069/
bruce…just another pathetic apologist for the fake news media.
40 000 votes fraud challenge thrown out.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/13/judge-rejects-bid-wayne-county-audit-halt-election-certification/6278120002/
It’s stunning how few of these numerous law suits carry any evidentiary basis.
Here’s a list of many of them, including their status:
https://time.com/5908505/trump-lawsuits-biden-wins/
barry…”Its stunning how few of these numerous law suits carry any evidentiary basis”.
Maybe you don’t know how the court system works in the US and Canada. First, you are required to complain at the state/provincial level. If you get no satisfaction, you take it to the Supreme Court.
Time after time here in Canada, I have seen lower courts make deplorable decisions only to have them reversed at the Supreme Court level. I don’t know what it is with lower courts, many of the judges are plain dumb-asses.
I know one thing. Before the election, at least two US federal judges took note of a decision made by a state court which allowed extended time for mail-in vote counting in Pennsylvania. They thought it unconstitutional but did not interfere due to the closeness of the election. You can be sure that will reach them again.
On election night, when it was plain that Trump was winning, the mail-in ballot counting in several states was suddenly stopped. At the time, I began to suspect something was wrong.
“On election night, when it was plain that Trump was winning, the mail-in ballot counting in several states was suddenly stopped.”
Which states? Most states don’t count mail-in ballots overnight because there’s rarely a rush for them. That’s why, for example, Clark county in Nevada packed up shop on election night and waited till the morning to start counting remaining ballots. They weren’t planning on being a swing state with the whole world watching. Once that became apparent, though, they ramped up throughput.
It’s almost like nobody watched an election before and this is all so new and strange.
“l. If you get no satisfaction, you take it to the Supreme Court.”
No Gordon, you are ignorant.
Most cases will never get anywhere near the SCOTUS.
A case would have to have a legitimate legal issue that is in question. These cases mostly do not.
Roy, I had no idea you were that stupid. Trump’s lawsuits is collapsing in state after state. Not a single case is about actual election fraud, but small and insignificant technicalities. I’ve been reading about these crazy cheating for a whole week. Not a single one of them has reached the courts. Even the postman who had written two contradictory affadivits Trump’s lawyers chose to drop. And now you tell me that: «But nothing beats eyewitness evidence in signed affidavits from poll watchers and workers, as is now coming out in Detroit.» Well, that train has left the station, Trump does not pay his lawyer bills so the firm has left him. In short, you should be far more concerned how close the United States was to Germany 1932, than these ridiculous attempts to provide evidence that the American electoral system is rotten.
rune…”Roy, I had no idea you were that stupid. Trumps lawsuits is collapsing in state after state”.
You’re an ignorant SOB for making such a claim about Roy. In case it has escaped your ignorance, the failures are happening in Democrat states, likely with Democrat judges. The remedy is to get the argument before the Supreme Court. There is plenty of time for that.
Even at that, Trump is not compelled to resign. Due to the closeness of the stats he could push this a long way, and if it gets before the House of Representatives, he wins.
They are simply exhausting every avenue.
“the failures are happening in Democrat states, likely with Democrat judges.”
You’re right, it’s strange that Trump isn’t trying to overturn the election in red states where he won… oh, wait. So far most judges are either Trump or GW appointees, so I guess that’s not true either.
“Due to the closeness of the stats he could push this a long way, and if it gets before the House of Representatives, he wins.”
2016 was much closer, so that’s a load of crap.
the only chance trump has is the election day is supost to be nov. 3. but the election went on for 2 months. trumps goes to the suprems and says this election is unconstotional because it did not happen on nov. 3 so we need a do over.
Drunk texting again?
yup, at least i have a excuse for being dum, whats yours?
jane…”yup, at least i have a excuse for being dum, whats yours?”
Good one, Jane, Nate is a bit of a banana.
You really didn’t need another reason.
we need a do over election, a run off election between trump and biden.
As soon as we see some hard evidence of widespread fraud.
Instead of partisan speculation and fishing expiditions.
barry…”As soon as we see some hard evidence of widespread fraud”.
It’s not up to you, or the fake news outlets, or the Associated Press. As it stands, at the moment, it will be the Supreme Court making such decisions.
Let democracy work.
Trump needs to win some cases in the lower courts to get to the Supreme Court.
What’s it now, like 0 for 20?
“it will be the Supreme Court making such decisions.”
Come back here on Jan 21 and let us know how that went.
“…it will be the Supreme Court making such decisions.
Let democracy work.”
Yes, those two senstences were right next to each other. Gormless irony.
Hi Roy, attached is a link to a very thorough Benford Analysis for all the precincts in Atlanta, Georgia. What is striking is that election day voting for both Trump and Biden pass the test, where as the mail in voting for Trump passes but the Biden data fails. Video shows detailed methodology and interpretation of data. You will like it.
https://lbry.tv/@EdwardKingSolomon:5/biden-s-mail-in-votes-fail-benford-test:3
Check Matt Parker’s video on Benford’s Law:
https://youtu.be/etx0k1nLn78
For anyone who likes this sort of mathematical forensics, you might check out “Freakonomics”. Those two authors (and their ilk) are the ones who should be turned loose on this issue. (But of course, the analysis would take more than a month to really parse out all the details).
tim…”But of course, the analysis would take more than a month …”
Time should not come into it, this is about democracy. 50% of US voters are backing Trump.
Actually 47% voted for Trump, 51% Biden.
Perhaps you think thats a minor difference that can be ignored…
The overall gist of this article seems to be to debunk the Benford Law analysis for precinct vote counts. Thank you for that.
But this part is confusing
“What one would need is convincing evidence of that the frequency distribution should look like in the absence of fraud. But I dont see how that is possible, unless one candidates vote distribution is extremely skewed relative to another candidates vote totals.
And this is what happened in Milwaukee (and other cities) in the most recent elections: The Benford Law analysis suggested very different frequency distributions for Trump than for Biden.”
Are you implying here that this difference was meaningful???
Clearly it is arising from the fact that as you noted, the Precinct Sizes are narrowly distributed, and Biden received the vast majority of Votes in almost all of these precincts.
Say Biden received 60-90 % of a narrowly distributed number. In Milwaukee. That results in a still narrowly distributed number. And so happens to peak near 500 votes
Trump received 10-40 %, that results in a broader distribution than Bidens. And it just so happens to peak near 100 votes, a better but partly accidental match to Benford.
Correction:
Trump received 10-40 %, that results in a broader LOG SCALE distribution than Bidens.
I think this kind of investigation and analysis is important. The basic problem is that a very significant number of ballots were mailed to people who did not request them and did not complete them. A more fundamental question is whether there is any accounting of how many ballots were actually printed and distributed. Were excess ballots printed?
Uhhhh…
Most states kept track of who submitted votes by mail, required signatures, and thus voting twice was avoided..
Are you pretending not to understand my post? The important question that deserves an answer is how many unaccounted-for ballots are left floating around country? That number plus how many actually voted as you explain would equal the total number that were printed. Sorry that I have to explain something so simple.
Some may think it is okay to abuse Trump for various reasons. Please consider the fact that next time it could be your candidate who is being abused. We need to have fair elections that are accountable and tallied on election day.
tim s…”The important question that deserves an answer is how many unaccounted-for ballots are left floating around country?”
That’s why an investigation is required. The identity of each voter needs to be ascertained and that cannot be left in the hands of Biden. As it stands, as each main-in vote was tallied, the ID was thrown out.
That’s grounds for throwing out all mail-in ballots or doing the election again.
There are undoubtedly unreturned ones. And so?
“whether there is any accounting of how many ballots were actually printed and distributed.”
Every county that uses mail-in ballots has this information, and it’s publicly available. You have to go to each county’s website, but it’s there, and has been since long before the election. They’re not just sending out ballots willy-nilly, they keep track of every single one, to whom it was sent, and whether it was received. You’re not the first person to think this may be important information.
You should really take some time to learn about election processes and security, a lot of great minds have spent decades (mail-in voting started during the civil war) thinking about how to do it securely.
“I would think it is more useful to just look at the raw precinct-level vote distributions (e.g. like Fig. 2) rather than a Benford analysis of those data. ”
Even more useful, by the law of Occam’s’s razor , would be to simply pay attention to the numerous institutional evaluations of election integrity and take note of what they say about it all.
Unless of course, one is is more inclined to the epistemology of The End Times, Qanon and Alex Jones
bruce…”simply pay attention to the numerous institutional evaluations of election integrity and take note of what they say about it all”.
Consensus is not the solution, an investigation is required. 50% of US voters are being represented and have their doubts, enough of a reason to investigate.
“Consensus is not the solution, an investigation is required.”
An investigation is required if there’s evidence of fraud, and so far none has been presented in any of the 32+ cases that have been dismissed or withdrawn.
What you’re actually asking for is a “fishing expedition” and it’s just not going to happen. You can’t tell a court that your gut says a crime happened and if you could only go through the files of so-and-so you can prove your case. That doesn’t fly, you need to have evidence and simply saying “it smells fishy” doesn’t count.
Again, not evidence in a press conference, evidence in a court of law. Put up or shut up.
JOINT STATEMENT FROM ELECTIONS INFRASTRUCTURE GOVERNMENT COORDINATING COUNCIL & THE ELECTION INFRASTRUCTURE SECTOR COORDINATING EXECUTIVE COMMITTEES:
“The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result.
“When states have close elections, many will recount ballots. All of the states with close results in the 2020 presidential race have paper records of each vote, allowing the ability to go back and count each ballot if necessary. This is an added benefit for security and resilience. This process allows for the identification and correction of any mistakes or errors. There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.
“Other security measures like pre-election testing, state certification of voting equipment, and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission’s (EAC) certification of voting equipment help to build additional confidence in the voting systems used in 2020.
“While we know there are many unfounded claims and opportunities for misinformation about the process of our elections, we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too. When you have questions, turn to elections officials as trusted voices as they administer elections.”
https://www.cisa.gov/news/2020/11/12/joint-statement-elections-infrastructure-government-coordinating-council-election
SHanslien
Thanks for the info.
J.-P. D.
SHanslein…another appeal to authority, does it never end?
Nate provided a link on the previous thread that coughed up this chart:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/El-kXOTX0AMcf98?format=png&name=small
The question is whether or not that represents reality?
It says ABC News at the bottom. Anyway I’d need a official timeline of tabulated votes received in Milwaukee. A link to that would be great. Otherwise you have to recognize that it could be a total fiction.
Significance??
“The question is whether or not that represents reality?”
I’ve seen that same “spike” in several close States. And, it occurred late at night!
That’s what needs to be investigated, because it’s just too suspicious to ignore.
“Thats what needs to be investigated, because its just too suspicious to ignore.”
As explained countless times in the news, this was simply votes being counted, and unfolded entirely as predicted weeks before.
In some states, like PA, the in-person votes were counted first and the Mail-in votes last.
The in-person were majority Trump votes, because he encouraged that. The mail-in were majority Biden votes.
Naturally, in Pa type states, there was an early lead for Trump followed by catch-up by Biden.
In Ohio it was the reverse. An early lead for Biden followed by catch-up by Trump. Because they counted Mail-in ballots FIRST.
Again no surprise.
If you are suspicious of Pa you should be equally suspicious of Ohio. Are you?
But really it is only suspicious to those who cannot understand basic logic and math who also favor Trump.
Nate, your problem is you have zero credibility. You have no problem distorting reality.
At this time, you have made 11 out the 28 comments. That exemplifies your usual desperation.
Nicely explained here, with lots of graphs
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-we-saw-red-and-blue-mirages-on-election-night/
“you have zero credibility. ‘
Extreme pot-kettle. I have never been banned.
And as usual, near zero information content.
I dopn’t get why people are suddenly so stupid. Trump asked his followers to vote on the day, not mail it in. Democrat mail votes were predicted well in advace of the election to outweigh Republican mail votes. And then we saw the results of that, in places where mail ballots were counted after on the day ballots. Well before election day it was noted that there were a record number of mail ballots cast. Most of these were from Democrats.
Conservatives are playing dumb to all this so they can make spurious accusations. This mendaciousness is very contagious!
barry…”Trump asked his followers to vote on the day, not mail it in. Democrat mail votes were predicted well in advace of the election to outweigh Republican…”
According to normal voting patterns, mail-in ballots should follow the regular voting pattern. As it stands, an enormous amount of mail-in ballots have been for Biden.
The election ballot is supposed to be filled in for not just the President but for other people running. Thousands of ballots were simply marked ‘Biden’ as if someone was in a hurry to stuff the ballot box.
If this election had been a landslide for Biden, as predicted, that would be another matter. As it stands, they are only separated by less than 0.5% in key states. It’s not fair to the 50% of US voters on the losing side if this situation is not investigated to the nth degree.
The fake media, especially CNN, do not want to see democracy work. They want to inaugurate Biden right now, depriving Trump of his right to investigate.
“According to normal voting patterns, mail-in ballots should follow the regular voting pattern. As it stands, an enormous amount of mail-in ballots have been for Biden.”
There’s your problem, there was nothing normal about this election. Between Trump making Republicans scared of mail-in ballots, the pandemic making Democrats scared of in-person voting, and two swing states using universal mail-in ballots for the first time, it’s amazing that it didn’t diverge further from normal.
“Thousands of ballots were simply marked Biden as if someone was in a hurry to stuff the ballot box.”
Weird that this bit of evidence wasn’t attached to a lawsuit. It’s because it’s not true.
“depriving Trump of his right to investigate.”
What? He’s been investigating and filing suits all over the place. He has a right to file them, but not a right to win (that’s where actual evidence comes in).
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You too DREMT.
I’m still waiting for an intelligent commenter to explain to us why on the one hand
– the poor Trumping guy got his election stolen
while at the same time
– The Republicans (whose House and Senate ballots certainly will have been cast – in person or by mail – at the same time as those for the Trumping guy, enjoyed
– the rescue of their short majority in the Senate
– the reduction of the majority of the Democrats in the House.
How is that possible? Ignoring this is sheer paranoia.
*
The reason Republicans stay close to Trump is simply because if they break up with him, they will be disregarded by millions of his supporters in the next elections.
And the reason for Trump not to leave the White House is simply that if he doesn’t stay there for a few more years he will be prosecuted by the US Justice department for a large number of offenses.
And what some of you here possibly don’t know: The Trumping boy owes the German ‘Deutsche Bank’ 400 million US dollars … peanuts!
J.-P. D.
At the risk of not seeming as intelligent as yourself, I would simply point out that your analysis is irrelevant. I have no evidence of fraud beyond the fact that the long delay in counting ballots opens the door for fraudulent activity that might not be possible if the ballots are counted quickly. To the exact point you raise, without the fraud, if it did occur, the Republicans may have taken the majority in the house.
I think Biden did win. I think there was likely a significant amount of local and isolated fraud, and that is the evidence being presented in various media. But it is not large enough to overcome the huge advantage Democrat governors gained by mailing out ballots to every registered voter, and increasing the turnout which always helps Democrats. Casual voters tend to vote Democrat, and both side know that.
“to overcome the huge advantage Democrat governors gained by mailing out ballots to every registered voter, and increasing the turnout which always helps Democrats. Casual voters tend to vote Democrat, and both side know that.”
The more people that vote, the less Republican we get?
So R policies dont need to address voter concerns, they just need to supress more votes!
Not supposed to say this out loud.
I’d offer up to those that can’t grasp the human condition and try to obfuscate the facts by using their opinion- If Ohio had removed and blocked poll watchers – harassed officials and ignored their state legislature too allow for voting rules to be illegally changed days before Nov 3rd (thank you PA.) then folks would be hollering about Ohio too….. so there goes that silly comment from above –
Next the corny comment about how could it be possible that down ballot votes shifted for Conservatives while top of the line went the other way….. because only one vote was made on those ballots…. for soon to be prez sleepy slow Joe. now one just needs to ask why only one vote? hmmmm
Best to be confident in the vote than to whine and cry about it – so neither side should be complaining about further verifications being performed. Got nothing to hide – stop whining about things and let the validations progress…… I Don’t mind the further scrutiny where warranted , worst case it will turn a light on the issues encountered this cycle…. best case it can show more acceptance that the vote is valid
“or voting rules to be illegally changed days before Nov 3rd (thank you PA.) then folks would be hollering about Ohio too.. so there goes that silly comment from above ”
Rule changes unable to account for 60,000 vote difference.
“Next the corny comment about how could it be possible that down ballot votes shifted for Conservatives while top of the line went the other way.. because only one vote was made on those ballots. for soon to be prez sleepy slow Joe. now one just needs to ask why only one vote? hmmmm”
Wow, conspiracy theorists have weird answers for everything..
Wow those that have their heads buried up their sandbox…. have no answers but fake news-y comebacks “its a conspiracy” lol…. maturity at its best we see.
Point is, “because only one vote was made on those ballots. for soon to be prez sleepy” is not data, it is just speculation, and not logical for DEM fraud scenario.
“then folks would be hollering about Ohio too”
Oh, BS. If Ohio had voted for Biden it’d be getting hollered about just as much as PA.
Sure, for those Trump supporters that think it’s evil to do mass mail out of ballots in the time of COVID – well Utah did that, which Trump won, and are we hearing anyone holler about Utah?
No, no we are not.
In fact, many states blue and red adopted similar practises in the face of COVID, but Trump supporters are eerily quiet about those ones.
When Trump was behind in Arizona he said on election night that they needed to keep counting there. But when in front and Biden catching up in other states he tweeted “STOP THE COUNT.”
I see a two-tone pattern emerging…
What is said out loud and needs to be said out loud is that people who are not informed on the issues tend more often to vote Democrat, and more importantly, Republican voters tend to be more informed. In general, Democrats tend to lie about things people want hear, and Republicans tend to tell the truth about things people do not want to hear. For example, Trump and the Republicans in congress proved that tax cuts are good for the economy and improve the level of employment for everyone. Democrats want people to believe that tax cuts only benefit high wage earners. Resentment toward wealthy people is a good selling point for Democrat politicians event though it is wealthy investors who fuel the economy.
Trump proved that if you borrow a lot during good times you can temporarily force employment below its long term equilibrium.
Borrowing is not the way to build sustainable prosperity, it’s just populism.
Silly snowflake Svante, are you now pretending to be knowledgeable about the economy?
You need to let people know about your failings in basic science. Full disclosure.
160 Watts/m^2 can NOT produce 640 Watts/m^2, as you tried to claim.
You’re just an idiot, like the rest of your cult.
Glad to help.
Yes, a budget deficit will lower unemployment, ceteris paribus.
Predicted by John Maynard Keynes in 1936.
In the 1960s, Milton Friedman pointed out that it doesn’t work long term.
And input – output = heat.
640 W/m^2 – 480 W/m^2 = 160 W/m^2.
Silly snowflake Svante, are you STILL pretending to be knowledgeable about the economy?
You need to let people know about your failings in basic science. Full disclosure.
160 Watts/m^2 can NOT produce 640 Watts/m^2, as you tried to claim.
You’re just an idiot, like the rest of your cult.
Glad to help.
“who are not informed on the issues tend more often to vote Democrat”
Oh puleeez, they mostly have Dunning Kruger.
Informed by propaganda perhaps.
Lots of interviews of people at Trump rallies show they are horribly misinformed.
“Trump and the Republicans in congress proved that tax cuts are good for the economy and improve the level of employment for everyone. Democrats want people to believe that tax cuts only benefit high wage earners.”
OMG, proved
Great, if taxes are 0 we’ll have the best economy!
The particular tax cuts DID benefit high wage earners, and ballooned the deficit.
Rs used to care about the deficit.
I do think it’s important to keep taxes low, but you can’t do it by borrowing and hope “dynamic effects” will fix the deficit. It may take twenty years so you go bankrupt before it materializes.
Svante,
What do you make of this?
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S
Fed revenue as a % GDP. Hovers around 18% for decades. Only time we balanced the budget was when it was ~ 19% in 2000, after taxes were raised and defense budget was cut.
But, the budget as % GDP has grown because of entitlements. All else in the budget has gotten squeezed. Tax cuts just made that worse.
Taxes have been fairly flat but spending has gone up.
Yes, Clinton balanced the budget in his last few years.
Bush got 9/11 and Obama got the financial crisis so they had to borrow.
Obama was closing the gap, but then Trump cut taxes and increased spending when he should have been saving for the Covid-19 crisis. In essence borrowing to buy votes from silly people like Tim S.
The deficit is 18% of GDP for fiscal year 2020.
We have been nowhere near that since 1945.
If rates ever return to normal it means serious problems.
As a side note, you can not have trade deficits without borrowing, so the trade deficit with China is perfectly voluntary.
I don’t think I answered your question but I let off some steam.
No, makes sense to me.
I think my point was that taxes are low by historical standards, in fact they are too low to be sustainable.
Yes, either that or cut spending, but not now since we have a crisis on our hands.
binny…”Im still waiting for an intelligent commenter to explain to us why on the one hand…”
You’ll never understand, being from an authoritarian state like Germany. Just look at the crap being laid down by Merkel re covid.
It’s disappointing that the “debate” about eection fraud has gotten so much traction. I’ve had the opportunity to watch Fox news (and opinion) over the past couple of weeks, and their shameless promotion of speculation dressed as allegations is truly revolting.
The numerous lawsuits underway are so obviously a fishing expidition that it is incredible any sober-minded, rational person could fail to see it. The president has certainly helped understand the partisan motive of these legal challenges, asking for the count to cease in places where he was winning, and in the same speech to contiunue where he was losing. Let no one pretend that this is about maintaining the integrity of the electoral system.
It is a shame to see America so traduced by this abysmal circus. Even if every lawsuit succeeded, the votes attached to them are not sufficient in number to change the result of the election as called. The Republicans, who have been utterly craven in their capitulation to the worst of Trump’s behaviour over the last four yyears, have sunk to a new low by aiding and abetting this vain exercise in undermining the election.
And obviously, a great many conservatives in the US have no interest in character or integrity when they vote. They seem to prefer ‘alternative facts.’
Hi barry
Here is what I just have read in the Washington Post:
” Sixteen assistant U.S. attorneys specially assigned to monitor malfeasance in the 2020 election urged Attorney General William P. Barr on Friday to rescind his recent memorandum allowing investigators to publicly pursue allegations of “vote tabulation irregularities” in certain cases before results are certified, saying they had not seen evidence of any substantial anomalies.
In a letter — an image of which was shown to The Washington Post — the assistant U.S. attorneys told Barr that the release of his Monday memorandum — which changed long-standing Justice Department policy on the steps prosecutors can take before the results of an election are certified — ‘thrusts career prosecutors into partisan politics’. ”
Yeah.
And… I’m still not sure the Trumping guy will manage to understand.
But… It’s almost 2 a.m. now, and Trump’s pathological behavior is sure not to prevent me from getting a good night’s sleep.
J.-P. D.
The President’s primary duty is to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. The US has established institutions that ensure free and fair elections, and the electoral process seems to be working not well, but with few cases of deliberate vouter fraud. Nevertheless, large sections of the American population believe the system is rotten. I can hardly imagine a greater threat to democracy. If this distrust is allowed to develop further, it is only a matter of time before the United States will experience a deep constitutional crisis where the outcome is uncertain. Trump must bear the main responsibility for this development, he has been whining about rigged elections for years, this time Trump and his collaborators made completely unfounded allegations on an industrial scale. They knew what they were doing and the intention was precisely to destroy the population’s confidence in the electoral system. To me, this is treason and a blatant attack on the constitution, Putin could not have succeeded better.
In a well-functioning democracy, Trump had been impeached and this time convicted.
Bravo.
For those who don’t know, the actual election will take place with the Electoral College on December 14. Until then, each state has its own process for sending electors. If Trump defies the outcome at that point, then the people who have ignored the Crossfire Hurricane scandal in the Obama administration will something to complain about.
Great Post Tim sadly there some unbalanced minds on the lefty lib (and yes the right too)…. sad to see some ignorant folks posting that it is such a horrible thing to protect our votes from various violations…. next month when the real vote is counted….. and the verdict is in… should be pretty clear who the prez is.
but to whine and cry about contesting specific oddities … is just silly and pathetic…. (like cHillary Clinton….er like she said do not concede no matter what…. lmao)
Although I am Norwegian, I probably know more about the American constitution and the customs associated with American presidential elections than you. First, for decades it has been a tradition that when various numbercrunchers and election experts have “called” the election, the loser call the President elect and the election is practically over. And to take the next bullshit argument, everyone knows that the election in each state is not officially and legally declared until the individual state’s Secretariat of state has declared it. That is not the theme here. You have a president who systematically tears down confidence in all of American democracy. The only way he can win now is to get a sufficient number of theElectoral Colleges to vote against what their states decided.
If so, the USA is toast.
Sadly your comment about the current US president Trump is true… that clown does a lot of egotistical BS it is sad… but Biden too is a BSr and liar and likely won’t make it 2 years. Now to the part where you get it wrong. As a tourist you probably don’t know about Bush v Gore…and just how fast Gore called to concede the end count.
I am a tourist, and I seem to recollect that the networks called the election and then rescinded that call (perhaps with the exception of Fox?), so that in 2000 we did not have the same situation as 2020.
Reading the history just now to be sure, Gore privately conceded to Bush when the networks caled it, then rescinded when the networks rescinded their call.
The value of being a tourist is that we don’t come in with too much red/blue bias. It also helps make it clear when red/blue bias is talking.
You did not comment on Crossfire Hurricane, so let me help you. The normal way to handle a person who is suspected of being a foreign agent is a defensive briefing. The elected official or candidate is informed and told to remove the person from their team. The Obama administration did just the opposite. Rather than inform the campaign, they withheld the information. Based on fake evidence, they used the FBI to spy on the campaign in secret rather than inform the campaign to remove the person, Carter Page, who turned out to be working for the CIA, and they knew it. Trump has every right to be upset about that, and most importantly not trust Democrats.
Alvin Gore conceded to Busch on December 13th “reluctantly” . Yes it was different times, different political climate different players and different ‘irregularities’ the point is that all who paid attention Gore did not concede for over a month…while they hotly contested every vote in a bi-partisan and open process. We here in the US felt better about the votes after the process played out fairly.
Has Trump been an egotistical child-man? certainly does he pout and whine and bully too much tweeting certianly so… but he has done more the minorities that Biden ever has and ever will. the sad truth about the lefty agenda is lower standard of living for the poor through ‘well meaning’ taxes they don’t grasp economics of taxing the rich…. they can’t see past bumper sticker vote getting mottos like “paying one’s fair share” Sadly Biden has already announced in advance he will waste US $ on Paris Accord … pump $ into more failed Green Deals – again while well intentioned, it is just not thought out
The guy who said DEMS tend to be uninformed, is taken in and misinformed by various conspiracy theories promoted by the chief con artist.
“Based on fake evidence, they used the FBI to spy on the campaign ”
There was real evidence of interactions with Russian operatives (eg from Australian intelligence), and the FBI decided to investigate. There is no evidence that the President ordered them to investigate.
Only in the Trump era has the Attorney General and Justice Dept become the President’s personal attorney and attack dog.
“next month when the real vote is counted.. and the verdict is in should be pretty clear who the prez is.
but to whine and cry about contestin”
Whachu takin bout Willis? The REAL vote has been counted. There will be no change between now and next month.
LOL the Real vote has already…. most just need a slight refresher in the who elects the US Prez…. so we all wait..till the real vote comes – and is certified you bet it likely won’t change the out come much but so far there are count differences… and no where near the amount needed to keep racist , liar , cheater Biden out of office but sure would be good to have some better confidence in the system that’s what recounts are for… to allow the Alvin Gores and Trumps of the world to stew.
“There was real evidence of interactions with Russian operatives (eg from Australian intelligence), and the FBI decided to investigate. There is no evidence that the President ordered them to investigate.”
The solution here is a defensive briefing, not a spy campaign. FBI field notes from an oval office meeting quote Obama telling Comey to use “the right people”. These right people are ones who made a total of 17 unexplained errors.
“meeting quote Obama telling Comey to use ‘the right people’.
Nope. Fake news, as discussed.
“the who elects the US Prez. so we all wait..till the real vote comes and is certified you bet it likely wont change the out come much but so far”
It is Trump invention that we should wait til the elctors meet to decide who won. And you have swallowed it. That has always been a formality with no practical consequence.
But the delaying of the transition process has consequences for the country.
But obviously DT cares only about himself, not a bit about the country.
I think you missed the main point, Martin. Gore conceded when it was clear who had won – there was a few hundred votes in it. The networks withdrew their call for Gore and then Bush as the race tightened each way. Gore and Bush followed that lead.
It has been abundantly clear who has won for over a week now. The networks called it Nov 9. There is no possibility of that changing, even if all the standing lawsuits succeed, which they won’t. Theyt don’t cover enough votes. That has also been known for more than a week.
The delay in 2000 was due to a genuinely close call. This is not the case in 2020.
Republicans should not let Trump’s ego hold sway. The fisco is having a corrosive effect on US democracy, even while the outgoing administration is claiming that it is shoring it up. It’s pathetic, and damaging.
Furthermore, Bush was receiving the presidential briefing shortly after election day, even with the count in dispute and the race not called. National security came first. Country came before party.
Trump’s vanity is costing America. He is truly a loathsome, petulant, feckless delinquent. That Republicans are supporting him in this pretty much traitorous.
I agree with ba. That is word for word what I would have written.
Yes.
This is an election circus. But the circus is entirely caused by angry, nasty leftists like yourself, for whom the truth is not important — only political power is important.
From a high level point of view, WAY over your head, there are good reasons to believe the vote count was “fixed” in some urban cities to favor Joe Biden. Such as Philadelphia, and Detroit.
The Republicans did very well in this election EXCEPT for Trump, which is a very unusual in any election, especially because Trump was very popular among Republicans.
Joe Biden barely campaigned, as if he knew he was going to win in advance. When Trump caught COVID, it might have been a good Biden strategy to stay in the basement playing it safe and criticizing Trump for being careless, not wearing masks and holding crowded rallies. But when Trump recovered and started campaigning like a man half his age, drawing huge crowds. Any other opponent would have stepped up his campaign. But Joe Biden barely campaigned at all. Who does that?
Back in 2016, when I launched my politics blog, I predicted that the Russian Collusion claim was a hoax, most likely invented by Hillary Clinton to distract from the stolen DNC emails. Four years later we know that was true. You probably don’t know, but smart honest, people do.
This year I will be publishing an article on Monday about 2020 election fraud. I’m sure it doesn’t exist in your mind, because you have a closed leftist mind. You probably don’t even recognize that the Biden family is guilty of influence peddling, and Joe got a share, and that makes Joe Biden the most corrupt man to ever win the popular vote for president.
because the smarmy leftist-biased media pretended nothing ever happened. I’m sure your head is in the sand on Biden family corruption . I wrote about the subject at least six times, starting in summer 2019.
The main problem Trump has is how to convince judges or justices to force some states to repeat their elections within the next month. That’s very little time. And about half of judges /justices are liberals who would never hurt their own party, so forget about justice from them. If this voter fraud is not attacked by the Trump team, it will repeat in Georgia (that’s a U.S. state) in January 2021, and in every future U.S. national election/
My politics blog: http://www.ElectionCircus.blogspot.com
stay away nasty Barry, I just cleaned up there
Everyone is still waiting for concrete evidence of widespread voter fraud. We’ve been waiting for months, ever since Trump said there would be.
I’m forced to stay away from your website, as my browser alerted me that it is unsafe to visit.
!
Your connection is not private
Attackers might be trying to steal your information from http://www.electioncircus.blogspot.com (for example, passwords, messages or credit cards). Learn more
NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID
“repeat their elections within the next month.”
OMG.
Guys. Your candidate was a looza!
Oh well. It happens to all of us.
Get over it. Move on.
Go back to getting your reality TV from the Kardashians.
BTW. Trump just tweeted that Biden won, followed by lots of BS about cheating. Hes still that sore loser kid that we all met in 3rd grade.
BUT, looks like hes going to take his ball and go home.
Greene
” From a high level point of view, WAY over your head… ”
Hmmmmh.
No matter where I see your comments, no matter what you write about, such stuff always gives the impression of an arrogant person who greatly overestimates himself.
*
” … there are good reasons to believe the vote count was ‘fixed’ in some urban cities to favor Joe Biden. Such as Philadelphia, and Detroit. ”
This is not a sign of intelligence, but of a mix of stubbornness and paranoia.
In my native tongue we write in such cases: “Plus bête, tu meurs.”
*
Btw: SSL_ERROR_BAD_CERT_DOMAIN
If you lack the ability to clear analysis, so try at least to get low technical details working fine.
J.-P. D.
Listen jerk, I’ve been voting conservative all my life. This is not a question of Republican or Democrat, left or right. It is about the foundation of the Western liberal democracies. And I see that you still have faith in a Trump victory. As long as it is about the election, he has long since lost. And you poor cannon fodder boys still believe in this. It is always tragic to see the soldiers still fighting while the general waves the white flag.
barry…”Its disappointing that the debate about eection fraud has gotten so much traction. Ive had the opportunity to watch Fox news (and opinion) over the past couple of weeks, and their shameless promotion of speculation dressed as allegations is truly revolting”.
Barry…you’re out of touch. Fox has recently pulled their support of Trump and they suspended Judge Jeanine Pirro for defending Trump re election fraud. I first noted their switching bias on election night and wondered what was happening.
On election night Fox was the most neutral I’ve ever seen it, particularly the news anchors. CNN by comparison had a clearer bias on the night.
But after election night the entire Fox narrative was about election fraud. Reporting gave credence to the numerous lawsuits while other networks pointed out that they lacked evidentiary basis. Fox continues to be a faithful voice for the Republican party.
The latest legal efforts have been a circus, with some of the acts too bizarre for even Fox to swallow, such as the allegation that the Dominion voting software was commissioned by Hugo Chavez.
The ‘conservatives’ who continue to dwell in Trump’s alternative reality don’t get enough succour from Fox, incredibly, and are drifting to the more extreme right ‘news’ services, like Newsmax.
Yes, Newsmax has remained faithful to Trump, despite the fact that he has been sitting in his garret tweeting about the election and failing to do his job for two weeks. Not to mention the fact he has no chance of overturning the results of the election around, even if all standing lawsuits succeeded. Newsmax, of course, hasn’t called the election for Biden, and so the rabid Trump supporters have gravitated to where their delusions can flourish.
I have to say Biden won get over it. It is not even close. Trump’s down playing of the virus was/is horrible.
Trump deserved to loose.
In Poland, the Constitution is bypassed and laws passed by the parliament are not published. Covid takes a bloody toll. I hope the US will not go this way.
The sheep are so afraid they will do whatever their masters command.
Centuries of fighting for human rights, down the drain.
ClintR
I am not expecting any intelligent or thoughtful answer from you. You are not very smart nor do you seem to possess logical thought process.
So I am wondering why you think trying to slow the spread of a virus that has proven to be deadly makes you think that it is somehow against human rights? You make some stupid comments so I am sure you will not answer in a thoughtful or intelligent manner.
Norman, I don’t know how you got so full of yourself. With no more talent than you have, it must be a mental disorder.
Possibly from too many flu shots….
ClintR
I wish you would surprise me with a little intelligence. I wish you were not as dull minded as I can clearly see you are. Your response was lame and low brow intellect. You really are not very impressive. Had you responded intelligently it would have been interesting. As it stands you will continue to post your low intellect responses and prove to others how ignorant you actually are. Like I keep saying you are not a smart person. Very dull and dim I would say.
Norm, that’s only about 100 words. You can do better. Let’s see a 500-word spew of your usual crap — insults, false accusations, and righteous indignation.
Go for it. Impress your other cult members.
ClintR
Fitting response to your posts, Duh. I don’t think you are capable of intelligent thought.
I agree Norman, you don’t think.
The dictatorship is born slowly, step by step. Without strict adherence to the law, it is possible.
It is very bad for the country when one party takes over the judiciary.
You may not agree with me, but I will to defend to your death my right to disagree.
In grown-up socieities the adults recognize that extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures. They aren’t so terminally self-centred that they disagree with prioritising health in a pandemic, nor so witlessly paranoid to imagine their liberty is being permanently abridged.
IOW, never let a crisis go to waste.
barry, after you and Norman finish telling yourselves how brilliant you are, remember you both tested positive for “idiot”.
We can schedule a re-test, if you want.
Sorry Clint, but even with a thorough instruction manual you would not be able to interpret an idiot test.
Rune, we love idiot trolls from Norway.
barry…”In grown-up socieities the adults recognize that extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures’.
In grown-up socieities, STUPID adults recognize that STUPID extraordinary times call for STUPID extraordinary measures.
ren…”the Constitution is bypassed and laws passed by the parliament are not published. Covid takes a bloody toll. I hope the US will not go this way”.
That’s what Trump is fighting at the moment. The Democrats have been trying for 4 years to remove a democratically elected President and they began with a lie that Trump colluded with the Russians to fix the 2016 election.
The Democrats represent the politically-correct who think they have the answers for everything and that the rest of us should follow their beliefs without questioning them.
Covid is not so bad that it should be referred to as ‘bloody’. Even in populations where the number of deaths is higher, it never exceeds 0.06%. That’s 6/100ths of 1%. Trump has advised people not to worry about the virus and he is right.
In California where there has been a virtual lockdown, the Governor was caught partying with friends, none of whom were wearing masks. Those in power know this is a scam and they are playing power games with people with no evidence to back it.
So you’ve finally come around to agree that COVID is a virus. I suppose that must have been right around the time Trump said he caught it.
Salvatore,
We haven’t seen you on this blog for ages. How are your predictions for a cooling world looking?
Don’t be a unpolite bitch, we all have missed Salvatore.
Hi Salvatore
100 % agreed!
J.-P. D.
salvatore…”I have to say Biden won get over it. It is not even close”.
Sorry to hear you say that Salvatore, I have regarded you as a thoughtful person. It is extremely close with regard to the number of votes in key states separating Biden and Trump. If it was as you describe, it would be over.
As for covid, we are being subjected to idiots who cannot find the virus using the standard method that requires a virus to be viewed on an electron microscope and are creating a phantom virus based on genetic material with no known source. This is far worse than the anthropogenic global warming scam.
Do you have a split personality? 8 mintues after you submitted this post you wrote another:
“Covid is not so bad that it should be referred to as ‘bloody’. Even in populations where the number of deaths is higher, it never exceeds 0.06%. That’s 6/100ths of 1%. Trump has advised people not to worry about the virus and he is right.”
Good to see you again, Salvatore.
Yes, an inconvenient truth for a Trump supporter.
Means he can do similarly when his climate predictions fail.
How are the hurricanes this year. You seem very quiet on this . Normally you are crowing about how few Cat x hurricanes have landed in the US.
(ignoring all others)
Laura hit Louisianna as a CAT4
Delta hit Louisianna as a CAT2
Eta hit Nicaragua as a CAT4
Iota hit Nicaragua as a CAT4
(landfall outside the US doesn’t usually count on this blog)
Which means the exact opposite if you translate it from ClintR’s lunatic reference frame.
ClintR says:
“Rune, we love idiot trolls from Norway.”
Thanks Clint, being a called an idiot by you indicates I’m on the right track, you just gave me a huge self-confidence boost
That’s why we love you Norwegian idiots. You never get anything right.
Rune Valaker
” … being a called an idiot by you indicates Im on the right track, you just gave me a huge self-confidence boost ”
150 % agreed from my point of view.
Maybe a word within comment this might be of some interest to you:
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2020/11/uah-global-temperature-update-for-october-2020-0-54-deg-c/#comment-550467
J.-P. D.
Bindidon is unable to face reality. He has been instructed numerous times that the designation “idiot” comes when one rejects reality.
Bindidon rejects reality.
Here’s why Trump has a huge problem. In 2000, there was a dispute over one county in one state, Miami – Dade, FL.
Biden now has 306 of the Electoral College, he needs 270 to be the President.
If Trump manages to turn AZ (11) and GA (16), Biden still has 279. Biden can even lose NV (6) and still has 273. If Trump turns PA (20), it is not enough, even if Trump turns GA (16) Biden still has 270.
AZ and GA are traditionally republican states with a republican administration, in AZ Trump has given up suing, in GA there is a recount where Trump leads with approx. 14,000 votes. Recounts usually lead to the relocation of a few hundred voices. The largest ever was 2000 votes in Miami – Dade which is a very populous county.
If Trump turns PA (20) and one of the battle ground states MI (16) or WI (10) it still isn’t enough, he needs all three.
So there must be a hell of a lot wrong with the American electoral system for Trump to win.
Rune, you must be worried if you’re altready starting the spin….
Spin? Is there anything wrong with this lineup of the various options Trump has? If so, it would be nice if you could contribute corrections.
If not, your comment seems to be spin.
You seem to be concerned that Trump might win, even with so much stacked against him. Likely you really know there were fraud ballots involved. You’re hoping the fraud works. If it somehow fails to work, your plan is to then claim the system has “a hell of a lot wrong with” it.
>>>Likely you really know there were fraud ballots involved.
How did you know, I’m exposed, but I confess if the alternative is to be subjected to a third degree interrogation by Clint and Gulliani. Here is the case;
-15,433 votes for Trump is placed under my mother’s mattress in a nursing home, I picked them up from the election in Georgia in June last year.
-187,098 votes, also for Trump, that I picked up in Pennsylvania I have hidden in the wheelhouse of the Titanic, it cost me a hell of a lot of money to get them down there, as You know it’s more than 4000 meters deep.
But that’s all I’ve done in this election, nothing more, I swear.
And Biden is still president with 270 of the Electoral College.
“Likely you really know there were fraud ballots”
Sure, blog guy Rune from Sweden knows stuff, that the Trump team is unable to dig up.
Brilliant Clint!
Troll Nate, “blog guy Rune” claims to be Norwegian.
But, being an idiot, you never get anything right.
Norway ok,
So that was headquarters for the US voter fraud operation?
You’re still delusional!
You are correct about one thing. There is something wrong, and that is the practice of dumping unsolicited ballots into the population. An absentee ballot has to be requested and has better control than just sending ballots to every address in the system where there is now, or used to be, a registered voter. This is precisely the problem that has lead to the IMPRESSION that fraud has occurred even if it has not. It was not ever necessary to mail out so many ballots. The absentee system works very well. Some people such as myself are signed up to always receive an absentee ballot.
None of the close states did that.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/vote-by-mail-states/
Utah, the reddest of all red states, has been doing universal mail-in voting for years. Are you saying that all those elections were corrupt?
Or do you just not understand how mail-in voting works? Yes, that seems more likely.
Rune, I cant believe you’re that stupid. The Pennsylvanian postal worker did not drop his claims, as he posted so himself on YouTube. Go run back behind the robes of your fake news priests.
Interesting story. Postal worker had his affadavit written for him by ‘Prokect Veritas’, a group that seems to be behind spurious claims, offering money to people to help them cast the claims.
Postal worker’s claims are questionned, and he walks back a lot of it, signs a new affadavit which turns facts into allegations, and acknowledges he didn’t actually hear fully what he said he’d heard.
He recants his recant, and is flimed by ‘Stop the Steal’ and again by Project Veritas, who it seems recruited him in the first place.
So it’s this guy’s word against another guy’s word.
Also, it seems that ewven if what he says is true, it amounts to a handful of ballots, which undercuts the allegation of what he thinks he heard in the first place.
https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/did-a-postal-worker-witness-ballot
Looks to me like interested parties are fishing for any and all sound bytes they can to hunt down widespead election fraud.
And they have pretty much zero evidence as of today.
Im sorry your guy lost the election. And it really wasnt that close.
Now its time to get a grip on this reality. And move on. Like half the country did 4 y ago, and every 4 years for 200 + years.
Its just the way democracy works.
Half the country moved on 4 years ago? You must be living in an alternate universe.
Yes, 4 y ago Hillary conceded the result on election night. DEMS unhappily accepted the result. And the transition began immediately. There were later protests about his policies.
There is simply no comparison to what is happening now. False Equivalence.
DTs own Justice Dept appointed a Special Prosecutor to investigate Russian collusion/interference that grew out of the FBI investigation. Indeed several people were prosecuted and were found guilty. And yes, not surprisingly, congress investigated as well.
He THEN abused his power wrt to Ukraine and was indeed impeached. That was all HIS doing.
Alternate universe.
Bush stole the election.
Bush did 9/11.
Bush lied about WMD.
Diebold stole the election for Bush.
Trump is a Russian agent.
Trump likes to get peed on.
Trump impeached over a phone call.
Kavanaugh is a rapist.
Violent riots are peaceful.
All Republicans are Nazis.
Trump: I think Democrats cheated.
Media: THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED.
Someone I know actually has a Resist license plate.
Get bent.
Most not found in my universe, but yes there are extreme views on both sides.
But the main problem right now, as I see it, is that the President lives in an extremist alternate reality, and his supporters seem willing to go there with him there.
He is pushing a narrative that the election was rigged, full of fraud, and that he was the true winner.
Poll shows that more than half of Republicans believe this narrative.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/526464-half-of-republicans-in-new-poll-say-rigged-election-was-stolen-from-trump
But thus far, there is no actual evidence to support this narrative.
I was told by another poster that Rep voters are ‘better informed’.
Then how the hell are they getting ‘informed’?
Anyone on the right, according to you, is an extremist. Who do you identify as extreme on the left?
I’m afraid the stupid one is You. The postman first issued an affidavit where he confirmed that he had been told by superiors to backdate, then he issued a new affidavit where he had not heard this anyway. What he says on You Tube has no legal interest. How much do you think this witness is worth in a lawsuit?
PS Hey Rune! Don’t forget to tithe 10% to the big guy!
>>>>PS Hey Rune! Don’t forget to tithe 10% to the big guy!
Do not worry RW, I already had an agreement of 16% in 2017, and if Joe wins the election, the percentage scale will be unrecognizable. Just like Trump, he also runs and wins elections with 110% or 140% of the popular vote.
RW and Clint.
Believe me, I have been awake all night, I have been thinking and pondering, back and forth for several days. I have not had a thought about climate change or what to do with my basements that is full of water, and just that has nothing to do with climate, I forgot to clean the drain. I have sacrificed all my thinkingcapasety to satisfy you two, now I expect thanks, I have solved the problem, what is required is a constitutional amendment:
Ammentment 28
The eternal president and the light of the universe, Donald John Trump, has the right to override any constitutional provision, any constitutional amendment and whatever else he feels for.
Suggest it to Lindsey Graham, he will certainly take it straight to the Senate Judiciary Committee for further discussion and confirmation, unless he runs straight over to Trump to get it sanctioned to avoid all this unnecessary paperwork.
The left is telling us if we don’t certify the election for Biden then there will be violence. I choose violence.
I think you have it backwards Stephen.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/11/18/amid-violent-threats-arizonas-top-election-official-urges-trump-to-halt-abhorrent-election-misinformation/amp/
Ah, the monolithic left has spoken has it? I wonder where you heard this voice that speaks for all the lefties?
Ah, the monolithic left has spoken has it?
Oh yes the thespian “Ah” pronounced with raised eyebrows and pedantic index finger. I suppose you fancy yourself as Ian McKellen or Alec Guinness.
I wonder where you heard this voice that speaks for all the lefties?
It’s called the news media ABC CBS NPR MSNBC NPR PBS New York Times, Washington Post and lots of local venues, it really is a long list. Oh who said it? Camilla Harris said the the protests will go on as they should.
Businesses in the U.S. are boarding up their windows in anticipation of riots. I know this by observation not the media.
“Businesses in the U.S. are boarding up their windows in anticipation of riots. I know this by observation not the media.”
Sure thing, point us to some articles about that in NYT or any of the others.
Riots from Left about what? Biden winning the election?!
Most political killing these last few years have been due to far right extremists, as noted by the FBI.
Gee, Steve. You’re a lot less of an asshole in person. Guess when there’s a safe distance you’re less afraid. So you don’t like my tone, huh?
I don’t like your lack of substantiation. Not one link to the monolithic voice of the left promising violence if Biden isn’t elected.
Because it doesn’t exist. But we get baseless demonisation of the left from lackwits on an hourly basis. It’s easier on the brain for dumbass conservatives to see life like a Marvel movie. That’s not all conservatives, just the loud ones.
I’ve always taken pot shots at you. On the old Random International forum I said you pretend to take the high road, but are in there kicking, biting and eye gouging along with everyone else. I haven’t changed my spots and neither have you.
I like the internet forums, you get to say what you want without anyone interrupting. Unless you’re banned of course, and I’ve been banned a few places but not for being an asshole.
They bordered up the White House and some shops nearby because of the BLM protesters. But nothing came of it.
I didn’t think anyone would riot. It was nice to see some dancing after the election was called for Biden.
You do know someone in the US is 10 times more likely to be killed by a rightie than a leftie for ideological reasons?
“The data show three notable trends. First, right-wing attacks and plots accounted for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994. In particular, they made up a large percentage of incidents in the 1990s and 2010s. Second, the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown substantially during the past six years. In 2019, for example, right-wing extremists perpetrated nearly two-thirds of the terrorist attacks and plots in the United States, and they committed over 90 percent of the attacks and plots between January 1 and May 8, 2020. Third, although religious extremists were responsible for the most fatalities because of the 9/11 attacks, right-wing perpetrators were responsible for more than half of all annual fatalities in 14 of the 21 years during which fatal attacks occurred.”
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
“As is typically the case, the extremist-related
murders of 2019 were overwhelmingly (90%) linked to
right-wing extremists. All but one of the incidents had
ties to right-wing extremism.”
https://www.adl.org/media/14107/download
“Businesses in the U.S. are boarding up their windows in anticipation of riots. I know this by observation not the media.”
I see now this is anecdotal evidence…
My anecdotal evidence is the opposite of yours. I see no such thing in my state. Where are you seeing it?
I think the point here is that a key chapter in the Authoritarian Playbook is to gin up FEAR. Fear of street violence. Fear of the ‘other’.
All Authoritarians have done it successfully. Hitler did this by having his militia, the Brown shirts, go out and get in street fights with Communist protesters/marchers.
The public were naturally fearful.
Only HE could put stop to this violence in the streets, because they were being encouraged by him!
Not saying Trump is Hitler, but its the same playbook.
The rather minimal violence happening in the streets is being exaggerated. In reality it is clashes between Leftists and Rightists, who are being encouraged by Trump.
But by far, the most serious political violence is coming from far right extremists, who have committed mass murder in eg black churches and synagogues, and planned kidnapping and murder of DEM leaders.
nate…”All Authoritarians have done it successfully. Hitler did this by having his militia, the Brown shirts, go out and get in street fights with Communist protesters/marchers”.
You are really scraping the bottom with your comparison of Trump to Hitler. If you knew anything about the motivations of Hitler and how crazy he was and you still made such a comparison you’d be a stupid troll.
Come to think of it, you are s stupid troll.
“Not saying Trump is Hitler, but its the same playbook.”
Learn to read, Gordon.
I see now this is anecdotal evidence…
My anecdotal evidence is the opposite of yours. I see no such thing in my state. Where are you seeing it?
A suburb of Milwaukee. George Floyd died in police custody on Monday night, by Friday there were, according to CBS news, riots in over 34 U.S. cities – that didn’t just happen. There were reports of pallets of bricks put out for the rioters – could be bullshit. I saw a bank with boarded up windows after the Jacob Blake shooting in Kenosha. Some of the boarded up windows were places closed due to the covid 19 shutdown. And Camilla Harris did say the protests should continue. She knows they will turn into riots.
The magnification, the “ginning up FEAR. Fear of street violence. Fear of the ‘other’” is working on you.
Meanwhile the real threat of harm to the public, the one that has caused 250,000 deaths, has been consistently minimized, downplayed, botched by the administration.
“And Camilla Harris did say the protests should continue. She knows they will turn into riots.”
Well historically such large protest movements end mainly in two ways:
a. Real reforms are enacted. Like in the case of Womens suffrage or Civil Rights movements.
b. An authoritarian crackdown, w/ many killed, injured, locked away, as in the case of the Chinese democracy movement, Tianamen Square.
Which do you prefer?
barry…”Not saying Trump is Hitler, but its the same playbook.
Learn to read, Gordon”.
Your message was clear, you are mentioning a President who has done no real harm to people to a dictator who murdered 12 million Jews and Slavs.
You need to learn to read yourself. Go read what Hitler did, not only to Jews and Slavs, but to his own people who disagreed with him.
I didn’t make the comment.
Learn to read.
My post from November 19, 2020 at 10:31 PM
said CBS reported more than 34 protests across the country just a few days after George Floyd died in police custody. For some reason this screenshot image at postimage dot com wouldn’t resolve yesterday:
https://i.postimg.cc/639CbXS5/image.png
Four days after Floyd died protest & riots sprang up in Iowa, Nebraska, and 32 other places. My opinion is the riots were in place ready to go before George Floyd got up that morning. The organizers were waiting for the first incident to occur and George Floyd was it.
Can’t follow the conversation?
“The left is telling us if we don’t certify the election for Biden then there will be violence.”
Did you have a link to substantiate this claim, or did you chime in here just to do some eye-gouging?
“My opinion is the riots were in place ready to go before George Floyd got up that morning. The organizers were waiting for the first incident to occur and George Floyd was it.”
Sure. Events and actions of millions of people are orchestrated by puppeteers… is something you think is plausible.
“A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy by sinister and powerful groups, often political in motivation,[2][3] when other explanations are more probable.[4][5]”
Most of the rest of humanity thinks it it is highly probable that the latest and most egregious, in a long series, of acts of police misconduct against black people, could easily inflame the passions of hundreds of thousands of people, who see this act as the last straw.
Steve nominates Kamala Harris as the voice speaking for the left promising violence if Biden isn’t elected. Implies she’s promising it along with the protests.
Let’s get a quote.
“We must always defend peaceful protest and peaceful protesters. We should not confuse them with those looting and committing acts of violence, including the shooter who was arrested for murder.
And Make no mistake, we will not let these vigilantes and extremists derail the path to justice.”
Calling for violence, huh? Maybe her boss has done it.
“Shooting in the streets of a great American city is unacceptable. I condemn this violence unequivocally. I condemn violence of every kind by any one, whether on the left or the right.”
So the leader and deputy leader of the socialist left are not calling for violence if the venerated leader is not elected. Rather, they are condemning violence.
So who is this monolithic voice speaking for the left in the US calling for violence if Biden isn’t elected?
Or did some conservative twit blurt out yet more BS on the internet?
“Presidential Transition Live Updates: Trump Invites State Lawmakers to White House in Bid to Subvert Election” NYT
He desperately hopes to convince Michigan legislators to overrule the voters, and appoint their own electors.
Good idea?
I recall the many R Congressmen during the Impeachment Trial stating that ‘the people should decide’ in the upcoming election, whether to remove Trump.
Shameless.
nate…”I recall the many R Congressmen during the Impeachment Trial stating that the people should decide in the upcoming election, whether to remove Trump”.
The opinions are split down the middle and so close it’s uncanny. Let democracy work!!!
Yeah, Gordon mised the point entirely.
If Trump is pushing legislators to choose electors that weren’t chosen by the majority in a given state, then that is of course ANTI-democratic.
barry…”If Trump is pushing legislators to choose electors that werent chosen by the majority in a given state, then that is of course ANTI-democratic”.
I don’t agree with the US system but the electors are free to vote according to their conscience. Based on the rules as they stand, I see nothing wrong with Trump appealing to them.
You continue to misunderstand.
The issue is not about electors chosen by the people changing their minds and “voting with their conscience.”
The issue is about state legislatures choosing different (pro-Trump) electors against the will of the people.
Either way, you are content to have the will of the people overturned by “the US system.” So don’t pretend that you want democracy to work.
barry…”Either way, you are content to have the will of the people overturned by the US system.”
I would agree if it was clear Biden had won by a significant margin. Till the last 6 or 7 states were counted, Trump was leading. Then, mysteriously, several of those states stopped counting for the night. Why? That’s basically what is being challenged, that mysterious processes have occurred that need to be investigated.
As a Canadian it’s none of my business. However, I’d like to see this exercise in democracy extended till a proper investigation is done. I’d also like to see fascist media like CNN kicked up their perverted butts. One of them, Toobin, was caught masturbating on a break. He did not even bother doing it in private, he did it behind a camera because he thought the camera was off. This is a married man with a family.
They are all sleezebags at CNN and this is basically where you are getting your information.
I get my news from the BBC, Australia’s ABC, Fox, CNN, Time, The Atlantic, The Independent, and a lot of local US papers that are online, regarding the post-election fiasco.
Biden has won by more than 10 000 votes in even the closest state.
No recount has ever shifted a result by more than a few hundred votes. The Georgia recount changed the margin by 496 votes.
Biden has won by a significant margin – Trump would have to flip 3 key states to overturn the results. It aint going to happen. Trump won’t be able to flip even one.
Out of about 30 cases so far rules, the Trump administration has won one – to let poll watchers stand closer to the counters – and lost the rest.
Stop reading Newsmax and whatever other extreme right news service. All they do is parrot Trump and his “elite” legal team of people who aren’t election litigators, and who come unprepared and without evidence.
Stop reading facebook for news.
And in true Trumpian fashion, you’ve got it completely the wrong way around. No battleground states stopped ballot counting overnight:
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/nov/04/facebook-posts/battleground-states-did-not-stop-counting-votes-el/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/04/fact-check-no-vote-counting-democrat-led-states-hasnt-stopped/6163978002/
Furthermore, it was the Trump campaign which called for counting to stop the day after election day.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/04/trump-files-lawsuit-stop-michigan-vote-count-temporarily/6164647002/
No lawsuit has been filed claiming that any state stopped counting votes on election night.
Seriously, Gordon, where do you get your news from?
Do you have a link for what you’ve just claimed about the election? Or does it come from facebook? Because it is the opposite of reality, as usual.
This symbolizes the legitimacy of the case the Trump team is trying to make.
https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/5IWRz7FAzijGCaBnj13Ahw–/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTY0MA–/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/wc2UAxxKM_nMfX0YPhsHLw–~B/aD00MDAwO3c9NjAwMDthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg–/https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_independent_635/a1141de58d04326acb1e4560f6bf07d0
nate…”This symbolizes the legitimacy of the case the Trump team is trying to make”.
They have not revealed their case(s) yet, no good lawyers would do so before appearing in court. As I told you, this is all heading to Supreme Court.
Your ignorant fool, no lawyer can even arrive in court before he has shown the court and the other party the evidence. And no, SCOTUS will not process any cases unless they are able to tip the election. Now GA and AZ are lost for Trump. If he is to win, he must take the lead in PA, MI and WI, ie all three states, and he is not on track to take any of them.
All he has left now is to openly try to get the Republican lawmakers to change the rules by electing other members of the electoral college so that they will vote against the will of the people. Even Idi Amin and Robert Mugabe would have refrained from such a move.
“As I told you, this is all heading to Supreme Court.”
Yes, and as I told you, you are a highly ignorant and confused Canadian.
You don’t get to declare fraud in court without having facts to support it.
You don’t get to go to the SC with just a conspiracy theory, or while on a fishing expedition.
Nate says:
November 20, 2020 at 8:43 AM
As I told you, this is all heading to Supreme Court.
Yes, and as I told you, you are a highly ignorant and confused Canadian.
You dont get to declare fraud in court without having facts to support it.
You dont get to go to the SC with just a conspiracy theory, or while on a fishing expedition.”
The supreme court ruled to stop the counting December12th 2000 – As they say in New York, you can look it up. Does Trump have evidence of massive fraud? The Duck Test says it looks like fraud. Did the Supreme Court apply the Duck test in 2000? It was a 7-2 ruling that the recounts were illegitimate. If it goes to the supreme court, Ginsberg won’t be there to be one of the dissenters.
I expect Biden will become officially President Elect December 14th and sworn in this coming January. Investigation of fraud in the 2020 election will continue for a long time.
Of the lawsuits initiated by the Trump campaign, none are alleging widespread voter fraud, and many of the lawyers when asked by the judges, have specifically stated they are not pleading a case of election fraud.
The ducks stop quacking when they go to court. How does that float, do you think? Looks to me like the endless drone about fraud, which began in June this year, is just the Trumpian method of pushing a lie in the hopes it will catch on (which it has), and nothing to do with a serious legal challenge.
One or two conservative groups have gone to court alleging fraud, but they have either withdrawn their cases or been dismissed.
https://time.com/5914377/donald-trump-no-evidence-fraud/
There’s no reliable evidence of fraud, Steve. Cases are being thrown out – 30 have already been dismissed or been withdrawn. People are being paid to produce affidavits. Now that quacks like a duck.
The reason people should be rooting for Trump is the following. Sleazy Joe does not look too well, maybe early onset. If his health fails, Kamla Harris will be President. The thought of that dizzy bitch being president, with her homeys AOC and company, should be enough to scare anyone straight.
Ok so we’ve established that you are a sexist, racist, clueless Canadian, who claims he is a Leftist??
All DEM women of color are equivalent, riggght?
False. Harris is a former District Attorney.
Biden chose her because their moderate views are well matched.
nate…”All DEM women of color are equivalent, riggght?”
Nothing to do with colour, I base my disrespect for her on comments she has made that I regard as anti-democratic.
Harris represents the politically-correct to an extreme. She’s the type, who with power, would shut down the basic rights of US citizens. In the US, the Constitution guarantees citizens the right to bear arms. Harris wants to shut that down while ignoring her brothers who use illegal guns to mug and terrorize people, mainly their own.
Riots took place, when the cops killed George Floyd, a black. I agree that the death was unnecessary and represented police brutality. However, the number of black killed by blacks far outweighs the number killed by police by a long shot. In fact, police killed far more whites in 2020 than blacks.
Harris is a brain-dead idiot who sees what she wants to see and feels everyone else should see the same thing.
“Harris is a brain-dead idiot who sees what she wants to see and feels everyone else should see the same thing.”
Gordon, what rot.
Nothing you mentioned puts her in that box. So you still must be an ignorant racist homophobic asshole. Im shocked that you also like Trump.
nate…I did not say I liked Trump I just dislike the Democrats a whole lot more after 4 years of absolute bs over losing in 2016.
They are the types to throw around a word like homophobia trying to prevent criticism of homosexuality and its excesses by shaming people into offering their opinions. A phobia is an extreme, unrealistic fear. No one has ever explained how homosexuality and phobia are related. I certainly don’t fear them but I’ll be damned if I am going to accept them as being normal just because the politically-correct says they are.
You and the Democrats are a load of sickos posturing as caring, compassionate people. You all need extended, psychotherapy, but I doubt it would do any good with such warped minds.
A phobia is an irrational fear or aversion.
“I’ll be damned if I am going to accept them as being normal”
What does ‘normal’ mean here? In the majority? Or something else?
“…homosexuality and its excesses…”
Yes, you’re homophobic.
barry…”Yes, youre homophobic”.
I won’t try to get into a discussion on this in Roy’s blog but I have had many exchanges with you and know you to be a narrow minded type who resorts to red-herring arguments when cornered.
I just explained to you that a phobia is an irrational fear and I have asked what is irrational about questioning homosexuality. Only a blatant politically-correct twit would reply claiming I am homophobic. What is the relationship between questioning the roots of homosexuality and an irrational fear?
Heterosexuals, like me, have perversions and when the issue is raised, most people simply raise their eyebrows because they know perversion is an oddity of the human mind. When someone points out that homosexuality is yet another perversion, the observer is regarded as having an irrational fear of homosexuals.
The function of sexual attraction is the reproduction of the human race. Recreational sex is a perversion. I have said nothing about it being good or bad, I simply don’t care what people do in private. I have done it myself but I don’t hold up recreational sex as something sacred, it’s a perversion of the basic function of reproduction even though we modernists have prettied it up and had the nerve to call it love.
Along come male homosexuals with no ability to reproduce so they become inventive by using orifices for which that function was not intended. Not only that, the orifices contain material that can make people sick unless great care is taken. Again, I don’t care what people do in private, it’s their business. Just don’t try to con the rest of us into thinking it is sacred and about love. It’s a perversion like the recreational sex of humans.
So, call the messenger a homophobe. Only a person lacking awarenesss and intelligence would pay any heed to such a politically-correct accusation. Since you accept it as a norm then it labels you as lacking the awareness and intelligence to understand. Then again, you demonstrate the same lack of intelligence and awareness with your alarm about global warming/climate change.
I might add that love has nothing to do with sex. Love is sacred and a very natural function of the human, as is compassion. Recreational sex is not, and no expression related to sex is about love. Sex is about lust and lust cannot exist with love in the same space. You can kid yourself into thinking both can exist simultaneously but that is an illusion related to the immature and inexperienced mind.
There is a perfectly good explanation for this. Love is about the other person. When you love someone, you are focused on the other person with no awareness of your ‘self’. Sex is exactly the opposite, the focus is on you, and your desires/physical needs.
On numerous occasions as a young man I mad that mistake, of feeling aroused sexually and telling a woman I loved her. I cringe at the thought of such a blatant lie, unintentional or otherwise.
Women ultimately pay the price, they get pregnant and some schmuck realizes his expression of love was sexually induced and bails on her. There is nothing equivalent to that in a homosexual relationship and that’s why I think homosexual marriages are bs.
I can understand men feeling love for each other but once you move into the arena of sexual feeling, you cannot have love. You can move back into the space of love when sexual feeling is absent but…puleeeeze…don’t call the practice of anal sex love, any more than heterosexual sex is love. And when certain men engage in anal sex while stoned and end up with AIDS, don’t blame it on a virus.
If you regard anything I have said as homophobia then you are a brain-dead, politically-correct idiot.
Sure Gordon, you think you are the ‘least homophobic person in this forum’.
Sounds familiar.
And your psycho-sexual-babble defenses are just plain weird.
Nate…”And your psycho-sexual-babble defenses are just plain weird”.
Nate…you are plain weird. You will never understand what I’m talking about till you lose the ego and admit you don’t KNOW anything. Then you might find the space for insight, and to allow intelligence to operate.
Like me, you might need to visit the school of hard knocks for a couple of decades to get the piss beat out of you so much so you are willing to start looking.
You call homosexuality a perversion.
You do this without a rational argument. You describe homosexual activities as unnatural. This isn’t argument, it’s just a declaration.
You have an irrational aversion to homosexuality.
That is what homophobia is.
I’ll provide you a dictionary definition.
-phobia (noun combining form)
Definition of -phobia (Entry 2 of 2)
1: exaggerated fear of
acrophobia
2: intolerance or aversion for
photophobia
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/phobia
And…
Definition of homophobia
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
You want to see what a rational line of argument looks like? Here’s a classic syllogism.
—————————————————————-
Same-sex sexuality is a natural occurence in the animal kingdom
Humans are animals
Therefore same-sex sexuality among humans is a natural occurance
—————————————————————-
Homosexuality is natural, but it is also abnormal. People confuse the concept that natural means normal. It doesn’t.
Humans do have an aversion or uncomfortableness with abnormal things.
Yes, some do.
Thankfully in America, we have the freedom and liberty to not conform to what other people consider ‘normal’.
Normal or abnormal, isn’t an opinion. Only about 1-1.5% of the population are homosexuals, but homosexuality has been around since humans. Psychopaths are abnormal too. But, psychopathic behavior is natural.
I wouldn’t be too sure about those figures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation
Let’s have a look at the word you are using:
abnormal (adj)
deviating from what is normal or usual, typically in a way that is undesirable or worrying
Being left handed is ‘abnormal.’ But it doesn’t get a value judgement in modern sociaties. It used to. People used to be phobic about it. It was equated with unnaturalness and even evil.
Do people have an aversion to my colour blindness? I don’t think people much care either way. In fact, quite a few are facinated by it. It’s certainy not the norm.
People are averse to phyical deformity. But these doesn’t usually come with a value judgement as being someohow intrinsically perverse – unless you’re a fucking philistine.
I guess non-white people in majority white societies are abnormal, are they? Are they averse to themselves, or is that a response that only the majority are able to experience?
Labeling homosexuality as ‘abnormal’ – per the dictionary definition above – is rationalising homophobia.
“Only about 1-1.5% of”
Apparently Stephen equates Uncommon with Abnormal.
Then it must be abnormal to:
Collect stamps.
Ride a 3 wheeled vehicle.
Be a grandmother with tatoos.
…
Not sure what his point is.
But it certainly does seem contradictory to the idea of America as ‘Land of the Free’
To expand on the conecpt of liberty and freedom in free societies: I think it applies to activities that others may find different or disagree with or even be averse to.
We can do them unless they harm others.
Being a psychopath that harms others, not ok.
Being gay and having gay sex in private? OK.
I don’t have any problem with gay people wanting to have sex in private. I personally don’t want to see it in public. But, as Americans, they have the right to do whatever they want as long as they aren’t breaking any laws or destroying others’ property. More power to them. But, it is an abnormal behavior. I disagreed that the Supreme Court should force gay marriage onto everyone. It should have been a tenth amendment issue.
Also, being a psychopath apparently is OK. Psychopaths aren’t selected against in the gene pool.
You might even argue that psychopathic behavior is more constructive than homosexual behavior. Psychopaths can be counted on to do society’s dirty deeds. What do homosexuals do that is constructive? They make good clothing fashion designers. They are artistic. But, what do they do to develop the human species biologically?
Barry, using Wikipedia as a source is like using mainstream media as a source.
The thing about using wikipedia is that it often has multiple sources, and in this case it lets you know that the statistics are quite different depending on which reports you read.
I don’t know what sources you use, but I’m pretty sure theyt are not reliable. If you reject all mainstream information services, then you are by definition relying on fringe sources.
Frankly, I think you get your news from facebook and youtube, and very likely twitter. But perhaps you could be a stright-shooter and tell me what information portals you think are reliable.
“I disagreed that the Supreme Court should force gay marriage onto everyone.”
Everyone????
You feel you are being forced to marry a man?
Forced to marry a woman?
“But, what do they do to develop the human species biologically?”
IDK.
What do senior citizens do?
What about people who choose not to have children?
They shouldnt get to marry, by Stephen’s rules!
“psychopathic behavior is more constructive than homosexual behavior”
Stephen, You’re attempts at logic to justify your hatred of certain groups are ludicrous.
Don’t even bother. There is no logic to it.
In the Georgia recount both Biden and Trump picked up more votes from missing ballots. The margin narrowed by 496 votes, from 12,780 to 12,284.
And that was about the best the administration could hope for, judging from past recounts.
When will they stop dicking the country around, let Biden get the security briefings, and conced so the country can get on with it.
The commander-in-chief is tweeting his heart out about the election while ignoring national security, COVID and the economy. A massive deriliction of duty. I believe he is slated to pardon some turkeys, though.
What an appalling disgrace he is.
Yeah Barry.
It is astonishing that people still think this demonstrably narcissistic, incompetent asshole, who shows so little concern for Democracy, or other people’s misery, is somehow FOR THEM.
Incompetent? Compared to who? He was substantially better than Obama in every category. From unemployment rates, regulations, foreign policy, sovereignty, Bill of Rights, etc. I understand those are things you leftists abhor. You guys keep labeling him a narcissist, but Obama fits those characteristics much better than Trump ever has. Talk about a serious lack of empathy; that’s Obama.
“Talk about a serious lack of empathy; that’s Obama.”
Stephen, IDK where you get your ‘news’, Q?
But its just back-asswards!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/as-covid-outbreak-continues-trump-returns-to-perennial-obsession-tv-ratings/ar-BB18uYF0
“Hundreds of American are dying of coronavirus everyday, but the only numbers that President Trump talked about on Saturday morning were TV ratings.”
Yes, a narcissist, and Yes, Incompetent.
It’s been a 4 year train-wreck, and the carriages are now crashing into the earth.
The out and out lies Giuliana and his cohort of crazies are telling are phenomenal. Hugo Chavez, dead for 7 years, has been named by Trump’s crack team as responsible for the Dominion voting system, which is not a Venezualan product, and is a competitor to the comapny (Smartmatic) Trtump’s finest lawyers have claimed owns the software.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9740535009
I’m curious to see how many conservatives pull away from this abject fiasco, and how long it takes them.
I’ve never seen a modern political party that wasn’t a fringe outfit shift so far to la-la land. What a wild alternative reality! It’s wonderful entertainment. But good God, I don’t know how I would take it if I was American.
I hope they go further. I hope they keep drifting deeper into the extraordinary delusion – so far that eventually even the staunchest fangirls realize that these people are plain nuts.
Yikes!
barry…”Trumps crack team as responsible for the Dominion voting system, which is not a Venezualan product, and is a competitor to the comapny (Smartmatic) ”
I have endured your bs on NOAA and GISS and your propaganda related to both. Now you are defending a company, Smartmatic which was developed in Venzuela by Venezuelans whose software has been used to rig elections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartmatic
“In 1997,[4] three engineers, Antonio Mugica, Alfredo Jos Anzola and Roger Piate, began collaborating in a group while working at Panagroup Corp. in Caracas, Venezuela”.
Guess where Chavez rigged his elections?
“Following the 2004 Venezuelan recall election, Smartmatic acquired Sequoia Voting Systems, one of the leading US companies in automated voting products…”
“The request was made after a March 2006 following issues in Chicago and Cook County, where a percentage of the machines involved were manufactured by Sequoia, and Sequoia provided technical assistance, some by a number of Venezuelan nationals flown in for the event.[102] According to Sequoia, the tabulation problems were due to human error, as a post-election check identified only three mechanical problems in 1,000 machines checked[102] while election officials blamed poor training.[103] Other issues were suspected to be related to software errors linked to the voting system’s central computer”.
I’d say there is sufficient evidence and/or doubt about this company to require a judicial investigation. I say that because this company has been involved in shady election results throughout the world. Where there is doubt, with an election as close as the 2020 election, an extensive investigation is required. Either that or scrap the mail-in votes.
barry…”I hope they go further. I hope they keep drifting deeper into the extraordinary delusion ”
Once again, you have not the slightest idea of what you are talking about. You have completely ignored the past 4 years in which the Democrat Party has been involved in one sleazy scheme after another to get rid of an elected President. It began with a total fabrication, funded by the Clinton Foundation desperately trying to link Trump and Russia in a collusion to interfere with the 2016 vote.
This party is so desperate to get rid of Trump they will stoop to anything, including working with corrupt companies who specialize in rigging elections. The 50% of voters who backed Trump deserve to be represented no matter what you sickos think.
Thank you for the wiki page on Smartmatic, which corroborates exactly what I said:
“2020 elections
Smartmatic was the subject of a hoax in the aftermath of the 2020 United States presidential election, notably promoted by the personal attorney to President Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, who falsely asserted the company was founded by the former socialist Venezuelan leader Hugo Chvez and that it owned and provided software to a company that is actually a competitor, Dominion Voting Systems. Giuliani baselessly asserted Dominion is a “radical-left” company with connections to antifa that sent American voting data to foreign Smartmatic locations.[124] Others falsely asserted that Smartmatic was owned by George Soros[125] and that the company owned Dominion, another company that was the subject of misinformation during the election period.[126] Smartmatic voting machines were not used in any of the battleground states that determined Joe Biden’s election victory.”
Now, I know you, Gordon, if it doesn’t fit with your delusion, you will sully your own source, so here’s another.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9740535009
“Both Dominion and Smartmatic have released statements saying no ownership relationship exists between the two competing firms.”
Giuliani is delusional. Dominion software is not created by Smartmatic.
“Dominion was founded in 2002 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, by John Poulos and James Hoover.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Voting_Systems
barry…”Smartmatic was the subject of a hoax in the aftermath of the 2020 United States presidential election, notably promoted by the personal attorney to President Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani…”
I did not see them provide any proof of a hoax. There is proof that Smartmatic machines failed badly.
barry…”Smartmatic voting machines were not used in any of the battleground states that determined Joe Bidens election victory”.
The article was obviously submitted by someone sympathetic to Smartmatic. That is a blatant lie. the Dominion company was involved in those states and they use Smartmatic machines.
You have no evidence for what you’re saying, Gordon. Whereas I’ve provided substantiation.
Quoting Trump’s lawyers isn’t the evidence you need to show, because they got it wrong, as multiple sources have pointed out.
They’ve just had their case thrown out for lack of evidence. It’s been dismissed with prejudice in court.
So you need to do better than they did. Please provide substantioation for what you’re claiming.
You’re claiming that Dominion owns Smartmatic machines. Prove that.
You’re claiming Smartmatic machines were used in battleground states. Prove it.
Here you go, Gordon. From the horses mouth.
“In the aftermath of the 2020 general election, there has been a great deal of misinformation being circulated about Smartmatic and other companies that provide election technology to voting jurisdictions in the US. We would like to dispel these incorrect statements with facts.
Smartmatic has never owned any shares or had any financial stake in Dominion Voting Systems. Smartmatic has never provided Dominion Voting Systems with any software, hardware or other technology. The two companies are competitors in the marketplace.”
https://www.smartmatic.com/media/article/smartmatic-s-response-to-misinformation/
“DOMINION IS NOT, AND HAS NEVER BEEN, OWNED BY SMARTMATIC.
Dominion is an entirely separate company and a fierce competitor to Smartmatic.
Dominion and Smartmatic do not collaborate in any way and have no affiliate relationships or financial ties.
Dominion does not use Smartmatic software.”
https://www.dominionvoting.com/
Now just so we have it straight, Smartmatic machines were not used in battleground states.
Dominion machines were used in some battleground states,
The 2 companies are not affiliated.
Dominion was not established in Venezuala, nor did Hugo Chavez instigate it.
Now let’s see what hard evidence you have to the contrary. Claiming that everyone in the world is in on some conspiracy against Giuliani’s wild claims is not HARD EVIDENCE.
So let’s see it.
I don’t know what cesspit you get your information from, but you are the one dumping BS on these boards, Gordon.
Come on, you get your newss from facebook, don’t you?
barry, I’m glad to see you’re so involved in politics.
Maybe it will keep you from perverting science.
(Although, we did enjoy seeing you fall flat on your face, numerous times.)
I see two possibilities. Either Rudy will come up with actual evidence for his amazing allegations, or Trump is paying a lot of money for lawyers to disrupt the transition. I think it is the latter. I see this as payback for what Obama did to him with Crossfire Hurricane which led to the very discredited witch hunt that was the Mueller investigation. The icing on the cake is the fact that the phones of the Mueller team were subpoenaed and every single one of them suffered the same accidental loss of data! No more proof of their evil intent is needed.
The big difference here is that what Trump is doing is legal so far, and in the open. What the Comey FBI did under Obama’s instructions (use “the right people”), and Andrew McCabe’s very corrupt leadership, was done in secret, and most likely not legal. The IG Horowitz report is damning, and the Durham investigation with likely criminal indictments is continuing.
I wonder how much you actually know about Hurricane Crossfire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossfire_Hurricane_(FBI_investigation)
“Trump was not personally under investigation until May 2017, when his firing of FBI director James Comey raised suspicions of obstruction of justice.”
The discredited “withchunt” found that there was indeed widesweeping Russian interference in the election, and indicted aides to the Trump administration, who pled guilty.
“Witchhunt”
That is what president Trump called it. He wasn’t exonerated from obstruction of justice, nor convicted of it, because the presidency rendered him immune, according to Mueller, which prevented making a finding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_report
Giuliani and the “elite” team of lawyers are running a sideshow. The claims are wild, factually incorrect and baseless. Giuliani is having trouble remembering legal terms and the name of the judge he is addressing.
These lawsuits are theatre. It’s why the vast majority have been thrown out.
barry…”The discredited withchunt found that there was indeed widesweeping Russian interference in the election, and indicted aides to the Trump administration, who pled guilty”.
If you really want to know about Crossfire Hurricane read Andrew McCarthy’s book Ball of Collusion: The Plot To Rig an Election. I got it at my local library. McCarthy is a former federal prosecutor and he is well versed in the ins and outs of the pertinent laws.
McCarthy is supportive of the FBI and CIA but he did not hesitate to demonstrate how they became involved with the Democrats in an inappropriate manner.
Unlike what you claim, there was no evidence to support Russian interference. The US people who went to jail were not involved in collusion with the Russians they got nailed for financial messing around. I thought Mueller far exceeded his mandate in going that far.
McCarthy thought the Russians were involved but he did not elaborate or provide proof. Neither did the FBI or CIA. What struck me was the way major players in the FBI and CIA, like Strok, had a hatred of Trump.
“During the presidency of Barack Obama, McCarthy characterized Obama as a radical and a socialist, and authored a book alleging that Obama was advancing a “Sharia Agenda”. He authored another book calling for Obama’s impeachment. He defended false claims that the Affordable Care Act would lead to “death panels”, and promoted the conspiracy theory that Bill Ayers, co-founder of the militant radical left-wing organization Weather Underground, had authored Obama’s autobiography Dreams from My Father….
McCarthy defended Trump amid calls for his impeachment over the Trump-Ukraine scandal where Trump sought to get the Ukrainian president to start an investigation into his political rival Joe Biden. McCarthy wrote that Trump’s behavior did not reach the level of impeachable conduct.”
You’ve found an author that hates Democrats and who peddles falsehoods. Sounds familiar.
No amount of Wikipedia spin or straw-man distraction can change the fact that Susan Rice is a liar and wrong again. They did not “go by the book”. The FBI teams that were hand picked by Andrew McCabe did not make 17 different accidental mistakes in the most important and highly consequential investigation of their or anyone’s career in the FBI. They knew exactly what they were doing because it was exactly what they were asked to do. An FBI lawyer, who is now a convicted felon, does not accidentally change the meaning of an email from the CIA. Carter Page was working for the CIA, and the dossier was a completely made up lie. Everyone from Obama on down the line knew this as an absolute fact, but they lied to the FISA court anyway. Those of you who think this is funny should do some research and find out what the court has to say in published comments about all of these events. There indeed was Russian collusion, and it was between the FBI, the Clinton Campaign, and Russian intelligence.
Of course there was Russian interference in the 2016 election. How do you not know this?
https://tinyurl.com/gtmtr5n
Many people in the Trump campaign who were indicted were charged with lying to the FBI and other investigations about Russian interference.
“Investigators ultimately had an incomplete picture of what happened due to communications that were encrypted, deleted, or not saved and due to testimony that was false, incomplete, or declined.”
Nevertheless,
Michael Flynn:
“acknowledged that his false statements and omissions in FBI interviews a few days after Trump was sworn in “impeded and otherwise had a material impact on the FBI’s ongoing investigation into the existence of any links or coordination between individuals associated with the campaign and Russian efforts to interfere with the 2016 presidential election,” which the statement of offense he agreed to said.
He specifically admitted to lying about asking the Russian ambassador to refrain from responding to Obama administration sanctions against Russia for its election interference and further requested Russia help block a United Nations vote on Israeli settlements which the incoming administration didn’t agree with.”
It wasn’t just dirty finances.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/breakdown-indictments-cases-muellers-probe/story?id=61219489
People making snide insults should do better research:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/17/politics/fisa-court-slams-fbi-conduct/index.html
“The FBI’s handling of the Carter Page applications, as portrayed in the [Office of the inspector general] report, was antithetical to the heightened duty of candor described above. The frequency with which representations made by FBI personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by information in their possession, and with which they withheld information detrimental to their case, calls into question whether information contained in other FBI applications is reliable,” federal Judge Rosemary Collyer wrote in an order from the court published Tuesday.”
Your repeated implication is that the investigation was ordered or directed for political reasons, and by Obama.
The available facts from the actual IG report say otherwise.
“Trump and his allies repeatedly promoted conspiracy theories asserting that the Crossfire Hurricane investigation was opened on false pretenses for political purposes.[3] A subsequent review done by Justice Department Inspector General Michael E. Horowitz, released in redacted form in December 2019, did not find political bias in the initiation of the FBI investigation.[4]”
Nate, who are you trying to fool? That is obviously a BS opinion quote, and not directly from the report. The IG was very clear that the only evidence against political influence was lack of evidence. He could not prove it, so he did not make that claim. He was also very explicit that none of the agents interviewed could offer ANY explanation for how ANY of the errors occurred. They just played dumb.
The Durham investigation is ongoing and his report will be issued with a high likelihood of indictments.
Ok lets see the quotes you are referring to.
“The Durham investigation is ongoing and his report will be issued with a high likelihood of indictments.”
If it is ongoing, how do you know whats in it?
Since it didnt come out before the election, it is highly likely that it will be another nothingburger.
I don’t think this revisionism is going to change the fact that Trump is behaving like a petulant child.
Does your patriotism extend far enough to care that Biden has not yet been allowed the usual security briefings that George W Bush got while waiting on the Florida results in 2000?
What could possibly justify this dereliction?
Tim has referenced the Horowitz inquiry as evidence the FBI werre acting with poilitical bias in surveilling Carter Page.
“December 9, 2019, US Inspector General Michael Horowitz testified to Congress that the FBI showed no political bias at the initiation of the investigation into Trump and possible connections with Russia.[82][83][84] However, he also stated in a Senate hearing that he could not rule out political bias as a potential motivation.[85][86][87][88] Horowitz said he had no evidence the warrant problems were caused by intentional malfeasance or political bias rather than “gross incompetence and negligence”,[89] adding his report was not an exoneration: “It doesn’t vindicate anybody at the F.B.I. who touched this, including the leadership.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Page#Horowitz_Report_findings
You can find the sources for all that on the page linked.
Furthermore:
“The Republican-controlled Committee released its final report on 2016 Russian election interference in August 2020, finding that despite problems with the FISA warrant requests used to surveil him, the FBI was justified in its counterintelligence concerns about Page.[98]”
tim s…”I see two possibilities. Either Rudy will come up with actual evidence for his amazing allegations, or Trump is paying a lot of money for lawyers to disrupt the transition”.
If the election results were not so close I might agree. I have the feeling he thinks he won and got jobbed. I tend to agree with him.
They may also be counting on getting this before the Supreme Court. With several more Republican judges on the bench they may be inclined to cut him some slack and make a decision that could send this to the House of Representatives. I don’t think they are going to so much trouble out of spite.
I recall the decision between Bush and Gore related to the chads. At the time I was mistakenly supporting Gore and I thought the decision by Scalia regarding the chads was political. Don’t see why that can’t happen again.
The Supreme Court has the power to rule the election null and void. I think, based on the peculiar introduction of so many mail-in ballots due to covid, the court may take that into account. This is not like like a normal election where one side is whining over a loss, there were significant irregularities.
One major irregularity was the stopping of the vote counting by several of the last states which could sway the vote either way. It would be hard to prove this in a limited time period and that’s why I think the Supreme Court should make a ruling to give the necessary time to investigate.
“The Supreme Court has the power to rule the election null and void. I think, based on the peculiar introduction of so many mail-in ballots due to covid, the court may take that into account. ”
That’s the point. What a demonstrably ignorant Canadian troll thinks the SCOTUS has the power and willingness to do is absolutely worthless.
Gordon Robertson
“One major irregularity was the stopping of the vote counting by several of the last states…”
May be they listened to Trump’s capital letter message: “STOP THE COUNT”
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1324353932022480896
Yes, its ‘Whataboutism’ taken to its ultimate limits.
It seems to be fine for Trump to do actual harm to democracy and the country by an unprecedented refusal to transition, in service of enacting revenge for a litany of perceived injustices that were mostly brought about by his own actions.
Well, at least you are correct about one thing. As the most hated politician in recent history (yes, probably worse than Nixon), Trump made a big mistake winning an election against Hillary Clinton. The criminal element in the FBI had no choice but to take action, and Obama is quoted directly in FBI hand written notes taken in the oval office telling Comey to use “the right people” for the Crossfire Hurricane investigation. It was definitely Trump’s own fault that he ran for President and won.
“Obama is quoted directly in FBI hand written notes taken in the oval office telling Comey to use the right people”
Nope, you never showed a legitimate news source for these quotes. Fake news from Q.
” It was definitely Trumps own fault ” that he tried his best to obstruct justice in the investigation of Russian interference.
It is definitely Trumps fault
that he fired the FBI director who had the gall to investigate wrongdoing by members of his campaign.
It is not the DEMs fault that his own Deputy Attorney General appointed a special prosecutor to investigate this apperent obstruction of justice
It is definitely Trumps own fault that he chose to try to blackmail another country into opening an investigation into his political opponent.
Here you go. They have a picture of the raw notes and this translation:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/24/explosive-new-fbi-notes-confirm-obama-directed-anti-flynn-operation/
NSA-D-DAG = [Flynn cuts?]. Other countries
D-DAG: lean forward on [unclass?]
VP: “Logan Act”
P: These are unusual times
VP: I’ve been on the intel cmte for ten years and I never
P: Make sure you look at things + have the right people on it
P: Is there anything I shouldn’t be telling transition team?
D: Flynn –> Kislyak calls but appear legit
[illegible] Happy New Year. Yeah right
If these notes are accurate, it means Obama and Biden were made aware of Mike Flynns contact with the Russian ambassador, in January, 2017.
This makes perfect sense since it had foreign policy implications while Obama was still President.
And, ‘use the right people’ means what to you???
“Obama did to him with Crossfire Hurricane which led to the very discredited witch hunt that was the Mueller investigation.”
That is hardly smoking gun evidence that Obama was directing Crossfire Hurricane, which was going on well before in 2016.
“Trump made a big mistake winning an election against Hillary Clinton. The criminal element in the FBI had no choice but to take action”
And this is completely illogical, since they took action to investigate well BEFEORE he won the election.
Your whole premise seems to be that the FBI should not have ever investigated this possibly illegal foreign election interference activity? That such an action is only what a ‘criminal element’ would do?
Sorry but IMO, thats exactly what the Federal Bureau of Investigation should do, investigate.
Don’t get too dizzy with all of that spin. You do a good job of playing dumb, just like the FBI agents who made all of those “unexplained” errors in an official court filing. The correct action is a defensive briefing. Tell Trump to fire the people they suspect of being foreign agents. That is the correct and legal thing to do. Instead, they launched a secret investigation of an opposition candidate with fake evidence — evidence they knew full well was fake.
“The correct action is a defensive briefing. Tell Trump to fire the people they suspect of being foreign agents.”
In your ‘expert’ opinion.
The FBI was conducting a counterintelligence investigation. Do you even know what that means?
Here some help
https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence
Making the targets of the investigation and their potential foreign contacts aware of the investigation sounds pretty dumb.
Republican Federal Judge dismissing Trump Pa case:
“One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens. That has not happened,” Brann added. “Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence.”
nate…the Trump team don’t care about low-level state judges, they are going through the required motions to get to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has already noted irregularities in the Pennsylvania vote processing and deemed it unconstitutional.
Let’s face it, this election was rigged by the mail-in votes and the Supreme Court knows that. Don’t whine too much if Trump is successful at that level and the decision goes to Congress, where he will win easily.
No one really wants to see Biden run the country, he’s a long time loser.
“..this election was rigged by the mail-in votes and the Supreme Court knows that”.
But Giuliani does not know? What an incompetent lawyer!
“The Supreme Court has already noted irregularities in the Pennsylvania vote processing and deemed it unconstitutional.”
Nope, the conservatives on the Supreme Court said that there was a ‘strong likelihood’ it was federally unconstitutional that the PA Supreme Court extended the deadline for receiving mail in ballots. This has not yet been adjudged by the federal SC.
If this suit succeeds in the federal SC, it will throw out just under 10,000 votes (the ballots received after the original deadline have been kept aside).
As Biden is currently ahead by 80,000 + votes, this would have zero impact on Biden’s win in PA.
The decision is not going to congress. Trump needs to throw out another 70,000 votes in PA.
‘Let’s face it, this election was rigged by the mail-in votes and the Supreme Court knows that.”
Gordon, it is interesting that you need no evidence to come to your conclusion. Luckily courts, even the SCOTUS do.
“Don’t whine too much if Trump is successful at that level and the decision goes to Congress, where he will win easily.”
Not sweating it, Gordon. You continue to have an incredible level of ignorance of how the US justice system actually works.
“No one really wants to see Biden run the country, he’s a long time loser.”
No one other than 51 % of the voters.
You so effortlessly slide into reality denial.
You don’t seem to require evidence to believe in conspiracies.
You seem be hopeful that the US is already a banana republic, where if the president appoints judges to the court, then they must show loyalty to him, rather than the law and the Constitution.
This election discussion is quite revealing about your anomalous thought process.
The judge was appropriately scathing.
This claim, like Frankensteins Monster, has been haphazardly stitched together.
I’ve been going through the case, as well as others. They are some entertainment for their witlessness.
The Arizona case presenting hundreds of affadavits best typifies what the entire legal effort to flip the election is all about.
The plaintiffs had set up an online form for anyone to fill out.
The plaintiffs admitted in court that they had tossed a bunch of affadavits that they knew were false, and submitted the rest on the basis that… they could not prove they were false.
Naturally, the judge dismissed this evidence saying that the process by which they gathered it was, by their own admission, unreliable, because it had produced a lot of lies and “spam.”
Plaintiffs tried to argue that CAPCHA had weeded out bots, and thus made the tranche more reliable.
You can’t write this stuff. But you can write about it. This is worth a read: we get some insight to the people who filed the affadavits as they respond to the court.
https://tinyurl.com/y256j7nq
I say again, this scattershot litigation is a circus. Evidence is baseless. It’s a fishing expedition at best, and it is utterly corrosive to the democratic process and to civil discourse in the US. Trump is divisive and destructive.
And he still hasn’t allowed Biden to get the usual security breifings. He has no regard for America, only for himself.
I do not understand how this is not crystal clear to conservatives.
Quotes missing – this was the judges actual words:
“This claim, like Frankensteins Monster, has been haphazardly stitched together.”
And my post was in reply to Nate’s above, but having to re-post twice because of this site’s curliques sent it down the bottom.
[Sidebar – I have fewer problems posting from my Macbook than my regular desktop PC. Both are new. No idea why]
Senior Republicans are finally coming out to call the legal shennanigans for what they are.
John Bolton – “Right now Trump is throwing rocks through windows, he is the political equivalent of a street rioter.”
…Chris Christie agreed that it was time for the president to concede and said the legal team fighting to overturn the election was “a national embarrassment”.
The Maryland governor, Larry Hogan, another Republican, said “I’m embarrassed” at the lack of party leadership speaking out to recognize the election result.
Hogan added that he thought Trump’s pressuring last week of state legislators “to somehow try to change the outcome” was “completely outrageous.”
The US used to supervise elections around the world but was now “beginning to look like we’re in a banana republic,” Hogan told CNN’s State of the Union politics show.”
https://tinyurl.com/y4m2hbze
We’ll see if more of the Republican leadership grows a spine now that it’s clear Trump can’t litigate himself a win.
barry, you and Nate (the Hate machine) make great vultures.
Make sure the victim is dead before you start feasting.
Your cult always brings out the best in your type.
barry…”Senior Republicans are finally coming out to call the legal shennanigans for what they are”.
John Bolton??? Come on, Barry, this guy is a serious idiot. Why not Mitt Romney, another idiot. Poor old John McCain is no longer with us and he was a prominent Republican Trump hater. But Bolton???
I think I am being trolled at times trying to make rational and factual comments, but I will play on this one. The best legal analysis I have seen is that Trump’s team of exceptional lawyers is playing games. They make entirely different arguments in front of the cameras than they make in court, and they are consistently losing in court with increasingly harsh criticism from various federal judges. The game is over. The only question is how the game ends. The SCOTUS is not going to go near this thing. Biden will be elected president on December 14. I think Trump needs to make the case that his actions are justified because of the Crossfire Hurricane investigation and Mueller investigation that severely hindered his presidency, or he needs to give up and play nice. I still think the Durham report is extremely important to shed light on all of the behind the scenes action that resulted in the most shameful abuse in FBI history.
Tim,
I don’t think Sidney Powell is that kind of attorney. She would not be making claims if she did not have some evidence to back them up. She is too credible.
Also, Linn Wood is an outstanding attorney. Both he and Powell have great reputations and are formidable in court. They don’t make wild claims. But, you’re right, and part of the problem is access, and forensic analysis of the data cannot be done quickly. They need a major smoking gun.
“She would not be making claims if she did not have some evidence to back them up. She is too credible.”
How do you judge that?
She hasnt shown any evidence. Long dead Venezuelan President involved?
C’mon.
State Republican lawmakers, governors and secretaries of state across the US are all saying that the elections were not fraudulent.
I guess they’re all idiots and Trump is a man of integrity.
In the fact-free world of Trump supporters.
What do Trump supporters here think of the fact that Biden is still not getting intelligence briefings? How is that justifiable in any way?
” The game is over. The only question is how the game ends. The SCOTUS is not going to go near this thing.”
Yes, Thanks for facing reality Tim, which some of the posters here are simply unable to do.
“I think Trump needs to make the case that his actions are justified because of the Crossfire Hurricane investigation and Mueller investigation that severely hindered his presidency”
I don’t see how either of these justifies for anyone, his unprecedented personal revenge scenario, that does harm to both democracy and the country.
Most other Presidents had to endure Investigations. Clinton Whitewater and Monica. Obama and Hillary: Benghazi, seven times! Hillary emails.
“I still think the Durham report is extremely important to shed light on all of the behind the scenes action that resulted in the most shameful abuse in FBI history.”
Hyperbole.
You need perspective. I think if you look at the J Edgar Hoover era you will see much much worse. Hoover had a file on all major political figures.
“ELECTIONS INFRASTRUCTURE GOVERNMENT COORDINATING COUNCIL”
Well that settles it then. They are for sure the one group that would come out and say that there was fraud, so if they are saying coordinated correctly, there was none. Them stopping counting when Biden was behind and then him ahead when I woke up – and in the only four places where Biden outperformed Hilary – was a total coincidence.
Do you get your news from youtube? Because what you typed about the counts stopping is pure, unadulterated BS. That’s why you will be unable to supply a credible source for it.
Barry, have you read the Pennsylvania election law? Read article 13D about absentee ballots. There are a lot more than 10,000 mail-in ballots in question. Almost all of the mail-in ballots violated Pennsylvania election law. Not only the courts but the Pennsylvania executive branch violated the law by mailing out all those ballots. This occurred in other states too, where ballots were mass-mailed.
Stephen, have you read what JM wrote here?
It’s BS. Are you changing the subject to deflect attention away from what he said, or do you agree it’s BS?
I don’t know JM or much about his argument. I know Trump has a strong legal point regarding the Constitution.
Can you establish
1) That there was a mass mailout of unrequested ballots
2) That this is against Pennsylvania law
I was unable to determine either
“violated the law by mailing out all those ballots.”
Nope. In Pa you had to request a ballot to get one mailed to you.
https://www.votespa.com/Voting-in-PA/Pages/Mail-and-Absentee-Ballot.aspx
If you read the law, it states you have to apply in person or on an official form mailed-in with your signature. It doesn’t state anything about applying on-line. Also, the Pennsylvania poll workers in Philadelphia did not allow observation of any of these ballots’ opening to see if they were valid ballots. They prevented transparency.
Also, Article I describes absentee electors. Can you show me where Pennsylvania’s recent changes with mail-in ballots met these provisions of Article I? It describes the different electors who can request absentee ballots. Nowhere does it state you can request a ballot because you are afraid to go to the poll.
“Also, the Pennsylvania poll workers in Philadelphia did not allow observation of any of these ballots opening to see if they were valid ballots. They prevented transparency.”
where from?
As far as all else in Pa, our opinions don’t matter since nothing of consequence the Trump team has brought up has made it thru the courts, except bringing observers closer.
All just grasping at straws…
Your guy lost. Oh well. Happens to all of us.
You’re right. I believe Biden will ultimately be elected. They say lawyers make the best criminals. Leftist lawyers make even better criminals. The Democrats knew if they cheated, they could not be caught in time to turn the election. By any means necessary is an apt motto. It will be a short-lived victory for the leftists and Biden. By the time Biden finishes, he will go down as the worst President in our history, even worse than Obama and Carter.
Also, Nate, Obama appointed judges are that. Obama appointed judges.
“The Democrats knew if they cheated, they could not be caught in time to turn the election. By any means necessary is an apt motto.”
Sure if that narrative makes you feel better about the loss..
Some of us prefer to live in evidence-based reality.
“They prevented transparency.”
No, they didn’t.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-wrong-claim-election-observers-were-barred-/
Not only have the suits alleging this failed, the plaintiffs have admitted that Repiblican observers were present.
This is one in a host of false claims.
Barry,
Politifact is wrong. It was reported for a couple of days that Trump observers were kept away from the ballot counters. They had to stand far enough away so they could not physically see the ballots. I saw the reports.
Please don’t quote leftists propagandists organizations like Politifact or Wikipedia. How do you explain the night of the election the sudden stoppage of votes, Republican observers were kicked out, and then suddenly, there was an abrupt jump in Biden’s count? This is seen when you look at the hour by hour vote counts in several battleground states. Do you understand Occam’s Razor about the simplest explanation?
Stephen, it seems you are simply parroting the claims made by the Trump campaing lawyers as if they are fact.
I think your ‘reports’ come from facebook or youtube. Perhaps you can show us that you yourself are using credible sources.
You have asserted there was a sudden stoppage of vote counting on election night for no good reason.
Prove it.
You have implied that no Republican observers were present during a ballot count.
Prove it.
You have implied that Republicans were illegally kept further away from counting tables than they were allowed.
Prove it.
And while you are at it, show that Democrats were allowed closer. You are implying that Republicans were being treated less fairly than Democrats.
You have asserted that unrequested mass mail-out of ballots occurred in Pennsylvania.
Prove it.
One does not go to court to seek discovery of evidence of allegations. One comes with credible evidence. Hearsay is not admissible in court.
When will you show credible evidence instead of just parroting headlines?
barry…”You have asserted there was a sudden stoppage of vote counting on election night for no good reason”.
Barry…you’re being obtuse. Anyone watching the coverage over here in NA saw that the count was stopped for the night with no reason given. One counting place in Georgia had a flood, which is understandable. But did someone hold a lighter under a fire sprinkler when it became obvious Trump was winning?
It was reported on the news that Republican observers had not only been blocked from viewing the counting, some were not even allowed into the building. When a court order was obtained they were then blocked from getting close enough to see.
Why won’t somebody show us these credible news reports?
Some Republican observers were ejected for not following the rules. Plenty other conservative poll watchers remained inside, as the lawyers admitted in court. Trump and some of his legal team claimed outside of court that Republican observers had been “barred,” implying all of them. That is a lie. That is why the Trump campaign lawyers quickly dropped that line when they fronted the judge.
Republicans and Democrats wer required to stay a certain distance away from counters equally. Republicans were not singled out. That is another lie.
The Trump campaign has now had 2 partial successes out of 3 dozen lawsuits. 30 have been dismissed.
One of those partial successes was to have the observers moved closer to the tables. But there is no requirement in Pennsylvania law that there has to be a certain distance. There is no law that requires observers can audit and challenge any of the mail ballots being counted, and there are rules about not speaking to counters, not standing too close, not taking photographs or video, and not intimidating counters, all of which some observers did and were ejected for not folllowing the rules. There were always plenty of conservative observers present.
The ruling to have the obserevers moved closer was later overturned in a PA Supreme Court ruling.
The count only stopped briefly in one county in Georgia, when a pipe burst in the facility. The rest of the state kept going, as did the other battleground states.
For Christ’s sake, put up some links to sources that aren’t dodgy.
Stop getting your ‘reports’ from facebook!
If the cheating favored the Democrats, it didn’t matter that Democrat poll watchers stayed away equally. It only mattered that Republican poll watchers had to stay away.
The rules applied equally, of course. This issue has been in court. Someone has to show that the rules didn’t apply equally, and clearly you’re not going to be able to, and yet you still believe they didn’t, even though there is no reliable evidence for it, and election overseers country-wide, Republican and Democrat alike, say there was no fraud.
The only people saying otherwise are Trump and his supporters – no one else. With no reliable evidence. Trump has been saying the same thing for 5 years. It’s a mantra. And his followers echo it like a mantra.
Please, for goodness sake, bring some reliable evidence of something, or start to think that what has actually happened is that Trump has yelled fraud, and people who want that to be true have tried to construct that as true rather than expose it.
It’s why affidavits were gathered via online forms inviting them (and subsequently dismissed by judges, obviously). It’s why conservatives are PAYING people to come forward with tales of election fraud.
It’s a fishing expidition, Stephen. That’s why you have not cited one little bit of credible evidence in the conversations you’ve been having here for a couple of weeks. Rudy’s video isn’t it. It’s just him talking.
Do you not see the vast gulf between what has been claimed, and the hard evidence to substantiate it? The other side of that chasm remains shrouded in mist.
This numerical tool cannot possibly account for fraud committed by a means that was designed to avoid statistical detection. The Dominion software allegedly used a ratio to pad the results so it just gave Trump fewer votes along the way right from the beginning. Then they panicked because the ratio they chose wasn’t enough to win the places they were counting on – THAT is when counting mysteriously stopped, “updates” were made and suddenly Biden was getting way more votes in the count in the wee hours of the morning.
The day Biden is inaugurated is the day the USA becomes a banana republic. Most of the 80M (?) people who voted for Trump are private sector producers – not employed or benefiting from government. We are all going to stop or seriously slow down production to teach these thieves where the money ACTUALLY comes from – us.
Nope.
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/527086-dominion-spokesman-it-is-not-physically-possible-for-our-machines-to-switch
MM,
Wasn’t it because of her support of the same conspiracy theory that Trump just told his lawyer Sidney Powell: “YOU ARE FIRED”!
It was apparently too incredible, even for Trump (!).
A group of former Republican national security officials penned a letter Monday….:
“We believe that President Trump’s refusal to concede the election and allow for an orderly transition constitutes a serious threat to America’s democratic process and to our national security. We therefore call on Republican leaders — especially those in Congress — to publicly demand that President Trump cease his anti-democratic assault on the integrity of the presidential election,…”
Apparently it is possible to combine common sense with being a republican.
The judge in Pennsylvania who threw out Trump’s case declared that he was not going to disenfranchise several million [Democrat] votes based on Trump’s argument. How about the several million Republican votes? Some judges in lower courts are seriously biased and this one was obviously grandstanding.
A higher court has ordered a review. This will reach the Supreme Court eventually if the Supreme Court is at all just. The legal fight is being fought along partisan lines and no one is looking at the law. It comes down to whether it is expeditious to investigate or simply cover it up.
As it stands, Trump has every right to complain. This election is extremely close and it was done under extreme consitions due to covid. IMHO, there are good grounds for a Supreme Court decision on constitutional issues.
You are either going to have a Democracy or your not. The only just remedy here is a full investigation before handing over power to Biden. Done properly, it would only take a couple of months, and what’s that in the overall scheme of things?
“IMHO, there are good grounds for a Supreme Court decision on constitutional issues.”
And we have already established that your opinion on this is no better than my cat’s.
The Pennsylvania judge who dismissed the case is a Republican.
The ruling lays out the problem with the ‘tortured’ case, noting that two sets of lawyers withdrew from pleading it (after which Giuliani stepped in).
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057.202.0_1.pdf
Several million Republican votes were counted. They weren’t disenfranchised, they just lost the lection.
That’s how democracy works.
But the judge was appointed by Obama. That tells you everything about what kind of “Republican” he is. The Trump strategy will be to prevent Biden from getting 270 electoral votes. It is possible. I think Trump has a small chance. He has to win more than Pennsylvania.
No, Stephen, that does not “tell you everything” about what kind of Republican the judge is. His history and what other Republicans say about him does that. Obama, like many presidents before him, had to make compromises on who to appoint, as he did not have a majority senate to give him a free hand.
You remarks tell me a hell of a lot about how partisan you are on this.
Judge Brann is described as fair and impartial (by Republican senator Pat Toomey).
He has also held multiple leadership positions for the Republican party.
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/MatthewBrann-PublicQuestionnaire.pdf
Your implication that he is a RINO is unfounded speculation convenient to your view, contradicted by facts.
“as he did not have a majority senate to give him a free hand.”
I must correct myself – Democrats were in the majority in the Senate when Brann was appointed.
Conservatives are gullible. Normal people are gullible. They do not understand or relate to psychopaths. They don’t understand or relate to the criminal mind. They don’t understand or relate to people with no integrity. The utopianists believe their goal is so moral, so just, that it is OK to use immoral means to achieve it. Look at the Marxists. Look at the Nazis. Look at the Nazi Party platform. Who wouldn’t want to live in that Shangrila? Have you ever watched some of Goebbel’s films? They are the elites, the masterminds. It has always been that way. Our founders tried to devise a system to prevent it. They couldn’t. Republics always fail. The masterminds devour them.
An insight into how Stephen arrives at his conspiracy laced conclusions.
Stephen,
“Do you understand Occams Razor about the simplest explanation?”
True.
Trump had a rough year with his Covid response, the economy, and protests.
In the election: which is simpler?
a. Trump got fewer (6 million) votes than Biden. He got fewer electoral votes than Biden.
or
b. There was a massive conspiracy by DEMS to steal the election, in multiple states, and somehow they did so without leaving evidence. Our election system failed in an unprecedented way.
Nate,
Democrats conspire all the time. They conspire much better than Republicans. The left is lock-step on the Supreme Court. They are lock-step in Congress. Their judges are lock-step with leftist ideology and thinking. To think that it is unreasonable to believe that Democrats in essentially five locations (Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, Las Vegas, and Fulton County GA) could conspire is, well, unreasonable.
Leftists on message boards worldwide use the same conspiracy theorist argument tactic, which is an example of conspiracy. Look at the mainstream media. From Rachel Maddow to Chris Cuomo to Thomas Kaplan, they are in lock-step. Republicans tend to be more individualistic. Leftists are a collective. Don’t historians believe that the Kennedy Nixon election was rigged? It wasn’t widespread but just enough to ensure Kennedy the win. Wasn’t that a conspiracy?
Nate,
Why don’t you describe for us how it would be impossible for the election to be fraudulent?
“Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, Las Vegas, and Fulton County GA) could conspire”
It is interesting that Trump highlights only counties with large black/brown counties as being ‘suspect’.
And his racist followers readily, without evidence, think that is reasonable.
They also think it reasonable to ask judges to simply throw out votes en masse from, these counties. And if they found a corruptable judge to go along with this, that would be bonafide election fraud!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/6188097002
Milwakee turnout no better than 2016. The rest of Wisconsin much higher.
Same in Philly vs rest of Pa.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/politics/election/philadelphia-2020-election-turnout-biden-trump-20201115.html%3foutputType=amp
Sorry doesnt fit your prefered fraudsters theory.
Same thing in Detroit vs rest of Michigan.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/11/5-reasons-that-allegations-of-michigan-election-fraud-defy-common-sense.html%3foutputType=amp
Trump did a bit better in Detroit than 2016, when he won the state.
Your theory about those colored cities doesnt fit the data.
Where else you gonna look for fraud Stephen? The suburbs?
Heres some more info from the conspirators
“On average, Mr. Biden improved on Hillary Clintons performance in suburban counties around the country by about 5 percentage points (that average weights each county by population). In Georgia, the shift has been more than eight points. In Michigan and Wisconsin, it was about three points.”
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/06/upshot/suburbs-shifted-left-president.html
You’re right; the testifying data scientist was talking about precincts in the suburbs where the guy was going around with the USB sticks at 29 different voting machines. You’re going to have a difficult time convincing me that Biden legally got 78% of the mail-in votes. I keep saying you guys are clever criminals.
To perpetrate fraud, the best tactic would be to spread the fraud out over many precincts. Don’t you think?
The data scientist said there were 47 missing USB cards.
“legally got 78% of the mail-in votes. I keep saying you guys are clever criminals.”
Yes, Stephen, we are. We use arithmetic to fool you.
The numbers are actually coded messages.
All part of the conspiracy.
“Democrats conspire all the time. They conspire much better than Republicans.”
Uhhh…sure according to QANON.
Anyway if theyre so good, howd they bugger up the Senate and House?
Howd they do better than 2016 in so many suburbs in Michigan and Pa, but did worse in Detroit and Philly?
That the ‘fraud’ took places they did worse in kindof boggles the mind.
Again its the whole implausility of the many moving parts getting aligned, and the le lack of evidence thing.
That should put a damper on your theories….
There isn’t “no evidence.” That’s the talking point the left keeps repeating. Many people have come forward and signed affidavits of fraud. There is a lack of evidence. The way the courts work, the Trump team will have to present enough evidence to show the evidence changed the election. That would take a very long time. As I said, Democrats are outstanding criminals. Republicans are gullible to assume the Democrats would play fair.
Nate,
Please describe for us how it would be impossible for Democrats to conspire and commit election fraud? Not widespread fraud, but enough to win the election?
How’d they bugger-up the Senate and the House? Are you a Brit? Figures. Why are you even here? A Brit would only be (here) arguing US politics and supporting Democrats because he is a Marxist. They buggered it up because, as I said, it wasn’t widespread. They found the most corrupt areas and operated in those locations. The Democrats are good criminals.
Your theory is not falsifiable with ordinary facts and evidence.
“use the same conspiracy theorist argument tactic, which is an example of conspiracy”
This is similar to how Flat Earthers talk, Stephen.
“They found the most corrupt areas and operated in those locations. The Democrats are good criminals.”
The vote pattern fails to fit your theory in of fraud in those cities.
The failure in Senate/House makes them bad criminals.
But every contradictory fact somehow adds credence to the conspiracy.
Again a Flat Earther standard.
Not a Brit, but like Brit-coms, where things are often buggered up.
Again, your leftist talking points are unimaginative. Flat Earther, Conspiracy Theorist, these are common leftist talking points. Can’t you be a little more imaginative? If you’re so confident the election was not fraudulent, you should explain why it could not be fraudulent. Also, I think the left was caught off guard with the House and Senate. You know, they were all expecting a blue wave. I believe there were roughly 8 Democrat Senate seats but 25 Republican seats up for grabs. I know they assumed, and the media reported they’d pick up ten or twelve Senate seats, same with the House. I think that’s why they were caught off guard with the Presidential election too. It explains why they bungled and stopped the vote counting late at night (several states) and submitted many ballots with only the Biden Harris box checked.
When you have a theory (check), and it involves an improbable conspiracy (check), and it fits your prior beliefs about nefarious forces at work (check), and it needs no real evidence for you to be absolutely sure its true (check), and countradictory facts/logic are considered part of the conspiracy (check), then Yes, you are definitely a conspiracy theorist.
And yes, it is quite similar to Flat Earthers behaviors.
“If youre so confident the election was not fraudulent, you should explain why it could not be fraudulent.”
There can be election fraud, and there has been on small scales.
Elections involve thousands of volunteers in thousands of counties, and state gov officials overseeing it, and checks by party observers.
It is simply difficult and unlikely to organize many moving parts, many independent humans, to organize widespread fraud, while not being observed, and in this case several diverse states, some with Rep govts.
THE US has lots of experience running secure elections. It is not, on the whole, a corrupt country like some others,
And in this case, lacking evidence, there is no reason to believe it.
Sorry, Stephen I dont what math you did, but it works fine for me. Particularly when you account for rounding of in person votes to 2 out of 3 for Trump.
And it works also because these are the votes that were actually counted.
It is comical that you think anything about this basic math is suspicious.
“Democrats conspire all the time. They conspire much better than Republicans. The left is lock-step on the Supreme Court. They are lock-step in Congress. Their judges are lock-step with leftist ideology and thinking”
Quite honestly, I think you are mixing up the parties.
Trump/Mcconnel appointed 3 SCOTUS and 222 Federal judges in 4 y, 55.5/y.
Obama 2 SCOTUS and 324 Federal in 8 years, 40.5/y.
A well known saying is: “Im not a member of any organized party, Im a Democrat’
Oh, come on, you are a Brit. You’re definitely not from here. Maybe La La Land. The Senate Democrats are always lock-step. The House too. Supreme Court too. Yes, they will fight amongst each other but never break rank.
Where do you get your mis information?
Right wing media? Which ones?
They are all about feeding you red meat that makes you feel warm and fuzzy about your beliefs, and demonize everyone else. No journalistic ethics required.
Nate,
Do you find it at all suspicious that Joe Biden won 78% of Pennsylvania’s mail-in ballots?
Is that suspicion just due to my Flat Earth brain?
Yup, the total vote was 50 percent, Biden, to 49 percent Trump, but Joe Biden won 78 percent of the mail-in votes. Not suspicious at all, according to Nate, and only suspicious due to my Flat Earth brain.
No, not at all. There are clear facts and logic to explain it. Do you really not have a clue what those are?
Of course, logic, due to your non Flat Earth brain.
It would have been awful if Biden had won only 75% of the mail-in vote. God must have been watching.
Nate,
I’m waiting for your logical explanation.
Really? You really are quite un informed.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2020/11/benfords-law-part-2-inflated-vote-totals-or-just-the-nature-of-precinct-sizes/#comment-552737
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-we-saw-red-and-blue-mirages-on-election-night/
More facts to help the uninformed:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/11/20/the-voting-experience-in-2020/
That’s your answer? I figured it would be obfuscation and misdirection.
And…?
Dont bother you with the facts?
Again, can you explain how Biden supposedly won only 50% of the total vote but 78% of the mail-in ballots? Can you explain this inconsistency? Not suspicious? No links, please. No blue meat.
Nate,
Can you explain why Pennsylvania data is so inconsistent as compared to a state like California where there were also a large number of mail-in ballots where the percentages of mail-in to in person were consistent? In California Trump gets approximately 30 percent of the mail-in ballots and 34 percent of the total vote. In Pennsylvania Trump gets 21 percent of the mail-in ballots and 49 percent of the total vote. More Democrats in California were likely to use mail-in ballots just like Pennsylvania. This isn’t suspicious? I guess I’m eating red meat with my Flat Earth brain.
Ugggh. Its called arithmetic..ever heard of it?
“No links, please. No blue meat.”
Of course all my sources must be part of the conspiracy!
https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/mail-ballots-pennsylvania-election-trump-biden-20201119.html
2 out every 3 in person voters were Trump voters.
Hmmm I wonder if it would be the same for mail-in votes?
Yes, criminals do understand math. They didn’t need 76%; they needed 77%. And, one more percent for good measure.
The total election was practically fifty-fifty. If 2/3 of in-person voters were for Trump, which could be verified because the voter presented himself, then it is somewhat reasonable to believe that 2/3 of mail-in voters could have been for Biden. This is somewhat reasonable even though this was not the case in California, where mail-in votes tracked fairly closely with the total vote. But, almost 80 percent? No, unbelievable and suspicious.
Total mail in 2.6 M. Total votes 6.86 M. So 4.26 M in person.
How’s that work out?
78% of 2.6M? Nah, it doesn’t work. There’s something rotten in Philadelphia.
I dont know what you did Stephen. Can you do basic arithmetic? No credit unless you show your work.
It works fine for me.
In any case. The actual counts are what they are, and no one is disputing these counts.
It is comical that you think it is suspicious.
Glad you find me comical. Do you have your head buried in the sand? Yes, the numbers are being disputed in the Pennsylvania State House today.
Not really. It was simply a farce. Vote already certified.
In any case none of the availsble facts fit your fraud scenario.
No extra votes in the ‘suspect’ cities. Lots of extra votes in not ‘suspect’ suburbs.
But no matter. Youve got belief.
The vote has been uncertified.
Nope. Its done. A court halted the next steps temporarily.
stephen…you just described the politically-correct Democrats.
Nate,
Here you are. Rudy lays it out, step by step. Even you should be able to understand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqUrkIIK_3s
If you take away the 682,000 fraudulent ballots in PA, then you have 1.8M mail-in ballots. This gives us 30 percent for Trump and 70 percent for Biden for mail-in, close to California. Slightly more believable, don’t you think? The Dems needed those 682,000 fraudulent ballots for Biden to win. Do you understand this math?
Rudy says the counting stopped overnight in PA. That is one of many falsehoods. The counting continued through the night. I watched the PA tallies as they changed on Fox and CNN into the morning.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/LB-penn-01.png?w=700
I fast-forwarded to his spruiking a cigar company, and to his second advertisement for a law firm.
All we’re seeing is the same things that have already been dismissed in court endlessly recycled. Most of those are easily refutable anyway by anyone with an internet connection and the ability to read statutes.
How Rudy imagines it?
Ha ha ha! How can anyone take him seriously?
All those people he put behind bars take him seriously.
Yes indeed. Rudy today is a hollow shell of Rudy 30 y ago. He has destroyed his own reputation. He has no credibility anymore.
That’s your argument? Rudy is a hollow shell of what he once was. It would help if you guys refreshed your propaganda playbook.
Response to YOUR argument that Rudy puts people behind bars.
Can you provide any evidence that he is a hollow shell? I need to see the evidence. Because he has no credibility with the left doesn’t mean he has no credibility before the court. Does anyone who is a Trump supporter have any credibility with the left? Does Linn Wood have any credibility? Sidney Powell? Jenna Ellis? Jerome Sekulow? Does Victor Davis Hanson or Thomas Sowell? That you are stating Rudy has no credibility, has no credibility.
“Because he has no credibility with the left doesn’t mean he has no credibility before the court.”
Ok, let’s see what the judges have to say of Giuliani’s return to the court after a 30-year absence.
1 week ago:
“…this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence…
This claim, like Frankenstein’s Monster, has been haphazardly stitched together.”
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057.202.0_1.pdf
Today’s case fared no better.
“Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here…”
The opinion was written by Judge Stephanos Bibas, who was appointed to the court by Trump. The other two judges were appointed by President George W. Bush.
The panel called the Trump claims “vague and conclusory” and said they failed to allege discrimination because they did not contend that Trump voters or election observers were treated differently than those for President-elect Joe Biden. ”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/appeals-court-deals-trump-giuliani-pennsylvania-lawsuit-yet-another-blow-n1249144
And then legal experts say this:
“Rudy Giuliani was brought in to lead an “elite strike force” of lawyers to guide President Donald Trump’s legal challenges to the 2020 election, but their efforts have been “dysfunctional” and “an embarrassment,” based on “unsubstantiated evidence” and “outlandish claims,” legal experts told NBC News.
“It’s beyond an embarrassment,” said lawyer Glenn Kirschner. “It’s both really poor lawyering and it has the worst possible motive behind it. It’s all in the name of overturning the will of American voter….”
“…This is like Bush v. Gore, but replace James Baker with the editor of a QAnon subreddit… It’s not competent lawyering. There are strategic errors, typographical errors every kind of error you can make in a case.”
“It’s as dysfunctional a litigation strategy as I’ve ever seen.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/beyond-embarrassment-legal-experts-say-trump-giuliani-s-floundering-efforts-n1248667
These are quotes, and from the presiding judges, too.
The lawyering is incompetent, and the criticism is the same as other judges have been saying about other cases for three weeks. No evidence. Strained legal argument.
Here are your Republican-appointed judges giving a withering verdict to Giuliani’s case. Another box is ticked for you. But I fear you will always have a never-ending supply of excuses to pollute the source. And in so doing, you mire yourself in an opinion rather than test it.
Yep, sorry the judges arent the problem.
Evidence that Guiliani and his team are ridiculous? Not from the Left?
Ok. Trump supporter Chris Christie, calls the Giuliani legal team a “national embarassment”.
Seriously, Stephen, you need to step out of your bias confirming information bubble.
“This gives us 30 percent for Trump and 70 percent for Biden for mail-in, close to California. Slightly more believable?”
No. Why is 70 30 better? Not obvious.
The actual votes counted are more believable than invented ones..
We finally agree on something. It is real votes that should count.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/rudy-giuliani-admits-exaggerating-claims-065554193.html
Did you watch the clip? Maybe you should before you post links.
160,000 Republican mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania were not counted, 42% of Republican mail-in ballots. Something rotten in Pennsylvania, folks.
Puleeez!
That little factoid just NOW appearing? That is actually something you should be suspicious of.
Do you understand that Rudy and friends constantly make such declarations without evidence?
Dead guys in Venezuela? Cmon!
Do you even require evidence to believe things?
https://time.com/5914377/donald-trump-no-evidence-fraud/
“Donald Trump And His Lawyers Are Making Sweeping Allegations of Voter Fraud In Public. In Court, They Say No Such Thing”
Rudy in Pa court: ‘This is not a fraud case’
You and your media sycophants keep conflating information. He wasn’t alleging fraud in that filing. He is alleging fraud to the legislature and will to the Supreme Court.
That wasn’t Rudy who made that claim. It was a different group that is investigating the election.
If he is claiming massive fraud, then in which court did he file that?
Which fraud case has not been rejected in court?
Are you that gullible? Where is your skepticism of claims without evidence?
“wasnt alleging fraud in that filing. He is alleging fraud to the legislature and will to the Supreme Court.”
Do uou understand how a case makes it to the SCOTUS? It is not via the legislature.
They will not be the judge of the merits of a fraud case. That is done in lower courts. They take a case if there is an unresolved constitutional issue.
Yes, I don’t think he is only pursuing legislative means. Did you watch the video? He has to make a Constitutional case to the Supreme Court, the part about the judicial and executive branches of Pennsylvania changing the voting rules and not the legislature. Again, you keep going off on tangents and assumptions.
Do you realize if a lower court rejects a case that it can be appealed to a higher court? He is arguing in both state and federal court while appealing to the legislature. Do you realize a Pennsylvania judge just halted certification of Pennsylvania? That is evidence he is using many avenues.
I don’t know what courts. I’m not following his filings. I don’t believe it will be a dead issue until Rudy says it is a dead issue. I think Pennsylvania and Michigan are the two key states. Neither state should certify their elections.
Rudy was asking the legislature to send their own electors, instead of the ones selected by the legal process set out by state law (passed by the legislature).
No chance that illegal action will happen.
He made false claims, such as that more mail in ballots were recieved than sent out.
Shameless!
You need to simply realize, that Rudy has made many allegations. Unless they can be proven in court, they are just allegations, not facts. Thus far none have.
The SC or state legislature cannot fly in and save the day.
Yes, the state legislature can save the day. They can choose not to certify the electors. It doesn’t matter if the executive branch certifies unless the legislature agrees. What do you think of this data scientist’s testimony?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLNgj5_Zpus
“It doesnt matter if the executive branch certifies unless the legislature agrees.”
False, Stephen, they cannot go around Pa state law, which sets the method of selecting electors.
Obviously this law was passed by the legislature and signed by the governor.
That would be ‘stealing the election’ from the voters.
Hey Gordon,
Smartmatic devices were used only in Los Angeles. Here is the system (VSAP).
https://www.smartmatic.com/case-studies/article/los-angeles-county-voting-solutions-for-all-people/
If you search for the use of Smartmatic devices in the US, only Los Angeles gets the hit, with the VSAP.
https://tinyurl.com/y2h57mbo
The Trump campaign legal team never named the locations where they contended Smartmatic machines were used, never brought the matter into the courtroom, and the woman standing with Giuliani making the claims has now been disowned by Trump’s legal team. Trump had named her as part of his wonderful team of legal representatives, Giuliani introduced her as part of the team on stage less than a week ago, and stood by her side as she detailed the allegations you have swallowed, like a muppet. But now the Trump campaign is saying she is not part of the team, and is acting on her own.
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55040756
When her theories lack any evidence, when she gets the facts wrong, when the BBC, Fox and CNN all reject her claims, and the Trump campaign disowns her, what or who who is left to give her theories credibility?
Answer: those for whom facts are not important.
A jackass says he will only accept the results of an election if he wins; then, after losing, cries fraud – and the minions lap it up.
Unbelievable. Even someone as smart as Dr. Spencer.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJzt48wXbA
snape….”A jackass says he will only accept the results of an election if he wins; then, after losing, cries fraud and the minions lap it up”.
This is typical of your inability to think clearly. I am sure Trump will accept the results once his legal options have been exhausted. The Democrats never did accept their loss, whining for 4 years about Russian collusion and trying everything to have Trump removed from office.
barry…”Judge Brann is described as fair and impartial (by Republican senator Pat Toomey)”.
I don’t care what Toomey said, the judge revealed himself incapable of make an impartial decision when he claimed he would not hear an argument that would disenfranchise several million voters. Of course, he was referring to Democrat voters not the Republican voters who would have welcomed an impartial decision.
What the heck difference does it make who is inconvenienced, the law is supposed to be about justice, not emotion?
Gordon,
That’s a judge who doesn’t understand the Constitution. He believes voting is a right. He probably also believes health care is a right. Like Nate, our Brit friend who believes health care is a right. But, owning a firearm is not a right.
Another climate skeptic who now also sees himself qualified to set aside court decisions with a stroke of a pen.
So the American constitution has no provisions on the right to vote? The original constitution had no such provisions, but the constitutional amendments Fifteenth, Nineteenth, and Twenty-sixth presuppose the existence of such a right, and a number of court decisions from the 1960s clearly establish the principle of “one person, one vote.”
The 15th Amendment doesn’t grant anyone the right to vote. It only outlaws discrimination due to race with regards to voting rights. Again, the 19th Amendment doesn’t grant anyone the right to vote. It only prevents discrimination due to gender concerning voting rights. Same with the 26th amendment regarding age. There is no Constitutional right to vote. If there is, I missed it.
Rune,
Also, you must be an outsider. There have been all kinds of unconstitutional court decisions.
Any number of court decisions which dismembered the limits on government the people agreed to as described by the Constitution.
Yes, the courts totally ignore the 10th Amendment unless they somehow see that it favors an activist cause.
Yes, the founders were East coast elitists who thought only they were smart enough to select the leaders.
You guys are demonstrating that they were partly correct. Given the vote, the majority are quite willing to take away minority rights.
Though there is equal protection in the Constitution. If one group gets to vote, then other groups must be allowed.
How states pick their electors is in state laws or Constitutions. All have laws giving people the right to pick the electors by their votes.
As such, to throw out the votes of some, as you guys seem happy to do would violate equal protection in the Constitution. And would be illegal under state laws.
Wow, we can tell you are very respectful of our founders. They were anything but elites; they were enlightened. But, I guess you think Marx was enlightened? I don’t think throwing out any votes would be correct. However, Pennsylvania should not certify any electors because of the fraud. If a state can’t run a free and transparent election, then their electors are bogus.
“However, Pennsylvania should not certify any electors because of the fraud” that remains a fantasy of a cult, lacking evidence.
They were the wealthiest landvowners, and most educated, lawyers, etc.
They were elites for sure. Enlightened also.
Were Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, or James Madison elitists?
stephen…”I guess you think Marx was enlightened?”
For the times in which he lived, he was enlightened. He protested the plight of the working class poor and how they were abused by the corporate class. He has been made a villain by modernists who have taken his work completely out of the context in which it was intended. He has been vilified based on the brutality of idiots, like Lenin and Stalin, who stole his ideas and implemented them in a Draconian manner, while outlawing capitalist enterprise.
The Russia of Lenin and Stalin had no intention of implementing a democratic communism, one in which the people agreed to live and abide by its tenets. Given the option, most Russians would likely have opted out. In China, circa 1915, Sun Yat Sen proposed democracy in China and the Chinese people did not trust it. In fact, the Imperialist powers like Britain, the US and China opposed democracy for China due to the interference it would cause for their Imperialist cause.
The brutal Bolshevik regime was forced on people as a reactionary movement to oppose Tsarism. They had no idea where they were going, Bolsheviks were no more than an angry mob using the Russian people as forced labour.
If anyone is going to criticize Marx then they need to take a closer look at the capitalists of the day and their abhorrent treatment of the working class. Marx makes no sense today but in his day he made a lot of sense to the working class. There are people today who think the working class should still have no rights.
Marx was a utopianist and a leftist. He would have agreed with Lenin and Stalin. He didn’t appreciate or understand free markets or human nature, or the Pareto Principle.
stephen…”He didn’t appreciate or understand free markets or human nature, or the Pareto Principle”.
Why would he when the free marketeers of his day treated workers abysmally? They even forced children to work. People were thrown in jail for having debts.
Obviously, I don’t agree with the free marker/free enterprise mindset. Capitalists have to be responsible to the rest of society in a democratic society. As one politician put it, they must be good corporate citizens.
Having said that, I totally disagree with the Democrat vision. I think they are politically-correct twits.
I have nothing against democratic capitalism having been in business during my life. I strived not to rip people off. However, capitalism as it stands is just as extreme as Marxist Utopia. Maybe one day we’ll reach a happy medium.
Gordon,
You’re getting left and right, and capitalism and Marxism discombobulated a little. The capitalists who had people thrown into debtors’ prisons were leftists capitalists. They used the power of government to enslave people, much like southern plantation owners. They were also leftists. Bankers who had people thrown in debtor’s prisons were leftists mostly. People on the right, conservatives believe in limited government. They would not use the government to throw other people in prison for their own gains. That is not how true free-market capitalism works. Banks, government printing money, loans, etc., are mostly tools of the left.
“Leftists capitalists”, groovy.
So anyone who abuses the system for personal gain is a leftist, and conservatives would never do that?
This patently biased worldview is patent. The word ‘leftist’ loses all meaning.
No, conservatives are not intrinsically or ideologically more moral than liberals. That IS the basis of your remarks after all.
The opposite of conservative is progressive or left, not liberal. Yes, conservatives are inherently more moral than leftists. It isn’t even debatable. Leftists murder millions of people. They enslave people. What did the Nazis do? The Marxists? Stalinists? Maoists? What free republic murders millions of people? None. Conservative capitalists don’t murder people. Leftist capitalists do. Look at Southern plantation owners. Yes, children used to work in factories. They were not enslaved. Their parents had them work. Children used to not go to school. It was the world in which they lived.
What grade are you in, Stephen?
Svante put his finger right on your strange ignorance.
Calling plantation owners leftists – I mean it’s just absurd.
Can’t expand your brain a lick? What does a leftist do? He uses the government to take wealth, labor, property, liberty, etc., and give it to another. What did the plantation owners do?
How did Lincoln describe the Southern Plantation owner? He described their view as “you work, I eat.” That is a leftist.
Stephen is chock full of these pearls of non-wisdom.
He has his own private, totally weird definition of Leftist.
It doesnt agree with anyone else’s definition, but that matters not a bit!
Do you really think Marx was the creator of leftist ideology? Leftist ideology has been with us since there have been civilizations. Julius Caesar was a leftist. Leftist ideology and its practice are what has caused every great civilization to collapse.
It seems like ‘Leftist’ is all encompassing for you.
Even Antifa, which are anti-Fascists are Leftist, most would say.
And Stephen you are ready to fight with Antifa.
But you say Fascists are Leftists? Which you hate.
So you antiFa, but you want fight with Antifa because….
Another nugget, “Julius Caesar was a leftist”.
“Leftist ideology and its practice are what has caused every great civilization to collapse.”
I’ve got to know – what do you think leftist ideology is? Taxation?
Then everyone is a leftist, including Trump.
The only way to prove this election was fraudulent would be a forensic examination of the data. This will take months to years. However, the people know innately that there was something wrong with this election. The common anomalies in the battleground states were too implausible.
Well, Trump told everyone months in advance that the election would be fraudulent unless he won. So when he lost the fraud is undeniable – according to his supporters. Unfortunately, his team of incompetent lawyers are unable to protect his obvious right to continue as president. Poor guy – it is really unfair!
“fraudulent would be a forensic examination of the data. This will take months to years.”
That will keep you guys angry for at least 4 years of fund raising!
The only other way is if they could actually catch the guys who perpetrated this or have a whistleblower.
>>>However, the people know innately that there was something wrong with this election. The common anomalies in the battleground states were too implausible.
So the people have a collective sense of complicated statistical models? It is conceivable that the people have this feeling because they have been carpet bombed with false allegations of election fraud.
Rune,
I suppose you are from somewhere besides the USA? Why are so many outsiders interested in the outcome of our election?
“Usually the feeling is right, whether or not the person who knows it can describe why they know it.”
Hmmm, what if other people have the opposite feelings? What to do?
Maybe look at the evidence to decide.
They are looking at the evidence right now in the Pennsylvania State House. Those late-night votes look suspicious.
Those late night votes in Pennsylvania:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/LB-penn-01.png?w=700
Gee, somehow the committee seems to have missed that Trump got more votes overnight in PA than Biden.
Want to know what looks suspicious? 34 lawsuits and 31 dismissed. 2 successes that have nothing to do with election fraud.
Want to know what looks suspicious? Trump campaign lawyers claiming election fraud to the press but not contending it in court.
The whole thing is a big charade. But it gives comfort to Trump supporters so they buy right in.
Barry,
When most people went to bed on election night, Trump had a several hundred thousand vote lead in Pennsylvania. So how does your link jive with reality?
It jives perfectly well with actual reality, as well as my recollection. I remember it took days for Biden to pull ahead of Trump in PA, not overnight.
At 10am Wednesday morning Trump still led by 590 000. You woke up to that. I was still awake.
https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvania/timeline-how-pennsylvania-broke-for-biden-as-trumps-early-lead-evaporated/
Biden pulled ahead 3 days later, on Friday.
But if you listen to Giuliani and Trump spin it, apparently that lead disappeared overnight from Tuesday to Wednesday.
And that is precisely what you believe, even though that didn’t happen. And you believe it because you are swallowing BS without batting an eyelid.
I think you have forgotten that Biden led Trump in the early tallies in PA on election day, and Trump took the lead in the evening.
The Times of Israel kept a blog running on US election day.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-november-4-2020/
Israel is 7 hours ahead of Pennsylvania.
10:22pm PA time
“Biden’s lead in Pennsylvania is down to about 5 points, but with only about 18% of the vote counted.”
10:54pm PA time
“With about 33 percent of the vote tallied, Trump is up by nearly 200,000 votes.”
Click on the link, search via ‘Pennsylvania’ and you will find the 2 Times of Israel blog entries right next to each other.
Yes, these tallies and the timeline all jive with reality, and not with the ridiculous claim that Trump lost his lead in PA ‘overnight’ from Tuesday to Wednesday.
That doesn’t really prove anything. It is just the nature of the way precincts report. The problem I continue to have is Biden received almost 80% of the mail-in vote. BS. (He had to because that was the only way the cheats could overcome Trump.)
When I went to bed at around 11:00 pm, Trump was several hundred thousand up in Pennsylvania with almost all of the in-person vote counted.
And when you woke up Trump was several hundred thousand votes ahead, also.
That is what actually happened.
Hillary won Philadelphia with 82% of the vote.
So it makes perfect sense if the main part of the mail ins came from Philly, plus mail in votes are largely Dem anyway thanks to Trump telling his people to vote on the day, that Biden would get the lion’s share of the mail ins.
And it was predicted by many well in advance that this is how it would fall out.
It’s not surprising. It’s not wrong.
Knowing anything about statistical analysis is not related to knowing something is wrong.
Usually the feeling is right, whether or not the person who knows it can describe why they know it.
stephen…”The only way to prove this election was fraudulent would be a forensic examination of the data. This will take months to years”.
Let’s get on with it. No need to examine the walk in votes, the examination needs to be of the mail-in votes. That should only take a month or a few at most. Meantime, democracy will be served and no harm will come to the US.
I am hoping this gets to the Supreme Court where a decision can be made on the authenticity of the mail-in vote and whether further examination is required.
“No need to examine the walk in votes, the examination needs to be of the mail-in votes. ”
But 4 years ago there were millions of illegal votes for Clinton … according to Trump. And those were walk-in votes.
“That should only take a month or a few at most. ”
And yet in the 4 years since 2016:
a) Those millions of votes were never found.
b) no serious efforts were made to prevent similar problems in the future.
In both 2016 and 2020, it was never really about actual problems with voting. It was about ego and image. I think this time around, there will be actual efforts to shore up the system. Not because of significant, widespread problems, but to prevent politicians from lying and blustering and bullying and complaining in an effort to rewrite the clear election results.
Tim…”But 4 years ago there were millions of illegal votes for Clinton according to Trump. And those were walk-in votes. ”
Four years ago we were not in the midst of a hysterical reaction to a manageable contagion. The rules were quickly changed for mail-in voting to accommodate covid concerns and it was obviously not well thought out. In fact, I think the Democrats used the situation to stuff ballot boxes, they were that desperate.
I have a feeling that privately, Trump knows he got his ass kicked in a fair election.
Hurray for feelings!
No, I don’t think he knows that at all.
I agree Stephen, grandiose narcissists can not admit failure.
It will help if you reread the characteristics of a narcissist.
snape….I would not call a 0.25% difference in the Georgia popular vote an ass-kicking. That’s what Trump is fighting, the election was so close and there have been reports of voter fraud.
There have also been reports of aliens abducting people.
Those are usually Democrat voters.
He said without one tittle of data to back up his asinine bias.
Well, I couldn’t help it. Looks like you’re wrong, Stephen.
https://www.newsweek.com/aliens-abduction-miami-herald-republican-candidate-bettina-rodriguez-aguilera-1081360
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/survey-shows-republicans-conspiracy-theories-article-1.1306229
But I might have misunderstood you. Were you saying that aliens tend to abduct more Democrats than Republicans?
Not all Republicans are conservatives. All Democrats are leftists.
All generalizations are bullshit
People are always committing fraud in elections involving Trump.
In 2016 he tweeted Based on the fraud committed by Senator Ted Cruz during the Iowa Caucus, either a new election should take place or Cruz results nullified.
Quotes vanished. Should be “Based on the fraud committed by Senator Ted Cruz during the Iowa Caucus, either a new election should take place or Cruz results nullified.”
Whatever may have been my political opinions before, I have but one sentiment now. That is, we have a Government, and laws and a flag, and they must all be sustained. There are but two parties now, traitors and patriots and I want hereafter to be ranked with the latter, and I trust, the stronger party.
I know only two tunes: one of them is “Yankee Doodle,” and the other isn’t.
snape…”I know only two tunes: one of them is Yankee Doodle, and the other isnt”.
You could try whistling Dixie.
you have no idea Mr. Creosote!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGGlnHe3Rgc
https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/LB-penn-01.png?w=700
The alarm was sounded several months ago when the idea of mass mailing unasked-for ballots by the millions to God knows where was promoted. The news media would not distinguish the difference between absentee voting vs. the mass mail outs. When an individual voter requests a ballot to be sent to him/her, that voter receives the ballot, fills it out, signs it, and sends it back. I did this while I was working in Alaska back in 2012. I am registered to vote in Texas, but I was going to be working in Alaska on election day. I mailed the ballot in from Alaska. This is how absentee voting is supposed to work.
But this mass mail out of ballots to everybody and their dog was an obviously flawed method of carrying out an election. And this was clearly a scheme to favor one political party over the other. Note how one political party was all in for this flawed method of voting while the other party was opposed. Plus, this method of voting was already a proven disaster on a smaller scale in congressional runoff elections in New York and New Jersey. Also note that the political party that pushed the mass mail outs was also the one that removed signature verification and time stamps from the ballots. You don’t think that is a recipe for voter fraud?
Well, the alarm was sounded that the feces would hit the fan in the 2020 election months ago. And here we all are. Surprise!
rob…”the alarm was sounded that the feces would hit the fan in the 2020 election months ago…”
It should be investigated no matter how long it takes. When Biden managed to make up 500,000 votes in Pennsylvania using mail-in votes, that’s ground for an investigation. Especially after the governor of Pennsylvania bragging that Trump would never win there.
It is a shame it has come to this. Of course, COVID is the excuse given for the mass mail outs. It was the justification. But the real motive was to manufacture enough votes in the swing states to produce the desired outcome of a presidential election.
Legally cast votes are not “manufactured”! They are votes! The idea the votes that don’t agree with you are less ‘real’ is a dangerous position!
In key states this cycle (GA, PA, MI), voters had to request ballots. No ballots automatically mailed out. No ballot applications automatically mailed out. Many states modified their rules. But these were Republican states, Democratic states, and swing states. Each state makes its own rules, and Democrats are not in a position to force states to change the rules. Or maybe Republican-controlled states also desired Biden, so they changed the rules to help him.
That actually isn’t true, Tim. Examiners are coming out with all kinds of examples of ballots being mailed out to post office boxes and people who did not request them. Linn Wood was also granted an expedited review in Georgia last night by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals.
But that review seems to have little chance.
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/politics/elections/lin-wood-suit-appeal-appears-unlikely-to-be-heard-by-11th-circuit/85-61848107-14c5-4a02-8763-622b2d5e6c5b
We keep hearing about “all kinds of evidence”, yet it always seems to evaporate before getting to court. If there were “all kinds of evidence” something real would happen, not just press conferences to raise money for Trump from gullible followers.
No, it is just too difficult to collate it all and in time. That’s what the left is counting on. The courts will usually require enough evidence to show that it would affect the outcome of the election. If there is a hundred thousand vote spread, you have to find one hundred thousand pieces of evidence. Difficult to do that in five weeks.
You’re fantasizing. And poorly, too.
You don’t need to gather every ballot for evidence, you just need to demonstrate that any significant fraction of them has a common problem.
No legal case for election ever relied on challenging each individual vote for reasons specific to the individual vote. That is absurd.
You defense has been absurd. Ther lawsutis are absurd.
And when SCOTUS dismisses Giuliani’s case with prejudice, will you still be claiming “something fishy” without any reliable evidence or merit of argument?
Or will you finally be satisfied that due process has concluded wisely?
Hey Barry, I hope you’re right. But, we don’t know what case will go before the Supreme Court.
The PA case Giuliani stepped in to contunue after 2 law firms withdrew their people from it. That’s being appealed to the SCOTUS after the Supreme Court dismissed the first appeal as futile.
“If there is a hundred thousand vote spread, you have to find one hundred thousand pieces of evidence. Difficult to do that in five weeks.”
Yep, evidence manufacturing takes time and $$. Its doubtful we will have manufactured enough fraud in time for the next election without the repeated funding support of many many gullible people.
DT has a history of declaring fraud, and given enough time to investigate it, none is ever found.
We’ve got the Obama Birther fraud.
We’ve got Ted Cruz in the 2016 Iowa Caucus.
We’ve got Hillary winning the popular vote by 3 Million.
DT was absolutely certain that fraud explained it. Yet what did his crack Fraud Investigative Team headed by Kris Koback find?
Nothing.
Can you see a pattern here, Stephen?
Nate, the US has a history of election fraud, especially in certain areas. Leftists will do anything to advance their agenda. Look at you guys.
Stephen,
Acquaint us with this history of election fraud, and in the areas you think matter.
Please, more than just hot air. Link something.
“Look at you guys”
Yeah, trying to confuse you with facts and logic.
That is so low down and dirty.
Among the close states, only Nevada sent out ballots to all voters.
You are correct that casual voters tend to vote Democrat. Since there is no real argument against high turnout, this is probably the way future elections will be run.
In which states were ballots mass mailed out unrequested? Hmmmm?
The disinformation campaign has been incredibly successful. People are just saying stuff that isn’t true with great earnestness, and going numb and dumb when called on it.
Still no reliable evidence of widespread voter fraud, and yet Trump supporters believe there is.
barry says:
November 26, 2020 at 6:32 PM
…Still no reliable evidence of widespread voter fraud…
Widespread means what, all 50 states? Well then you would be right. If it’s just those three or four swing states? That would be a bit different. Can you say “Spin”? I knew you could.
Barry, you won’t reconsider any opinion. You do nothing but trumpet every leftist cause. You troll this board and probably many others espousing your grand utopianist vision.
“espousing your grand utopianist vision”
You’re off with the fairies, mate. I have done no such thing. I haven’t said one word on any kind of utpoian vision.
You are crazy.
What I’m mainlyh doing here is countering disinformation, against a few peoploe like yourself who don’t bother substantiating anything. You’re just delivering repackaged sounbytes from Giuliani and Trump.
No, widespread can mean for any individual state, including the battleground states. In fact, that is precisely what I mean.
As soon as any cxredible evidence turns up for that, I will reconsider my opinion that the Trump campaign and associates are flinging evey bit of unsubstantiated mud they can at the elctoral process in the hope that some will stick.
I think the legal win loss is 2/32 currently, and the only two successes were not at all about election fraud.
Anyway, to get back to the topic, mass mailouts of ballots occured in 9 states, none of which was a battleground state (unless you include Nevada).
It doesn’t have to be widespread. It was targeted fraud mainly in Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, Clarke County, and Fulton County.
Barry,
Here is a poll watcher data scientist testifying before the Pennsylvania State House. Would you consider this evidence? Direct testimony?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLNgj5_Zpus
Thanks for that link, it’s an expansion of the one I put up earlier. The take home is that over a 90 minute period around 700,000 votes were dumped in PA with a 175 to 1 ratio of Biden to Trump votes.
Is there a credible source for that, Steve? How are those numbers arrived at? What time did this occur? Where is the evidence?
First of all, Stephen, that is not a testimony in a court, nor in a government building.
Secondly, as others have testified and when questionned by the judge been found to be ignorant of the process or incompetent in some other way.
Why isn’t this guy in court?
Didn’t finish my sentence…
Secondly, as others have testified and when questionned by the judge been found to be ignorant of the process or incompetent in some other way, I am hardly inclined to give yet another claim much credence until tested.
“Would you consider this evidence? Direct testimony?”
You are using the phrase, “direct testimony” in order to give the claims credence. But we have seen what has happened with signed affidavits – a step above direct testimony in a meeting.
As so many testimonies have been dismissed, I am not inclined to give this one much credence. I wonder why you have not been impacted by all the other testimonies that failed over the past 3 weeks. It seems you do not weigh that at all, and it is a considerable failure.
You are hoping that one day some real evidence will come.
And all the while saying with little qualification that fraud was committed in the election.
Rather than make people sit through youtube videos – try to get transcripts and quote the relevant parts. People – like me – are not inclined to sit through video for tens of minutes wondering when someone will get to whatever point the linker has not enunciated.
Stop being vague. It’s probably hard with such vague accusations to rely on, but please provide concrete stuff.
Here is a link to the transcript of that event, including the gravitas-laden serviceman:
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/pennsylvania-senate-republican-lawmaker-hearing-transcript-on-2020-election
November 27, 2020 at 5:18 PM
Is there a credible source for that, Steve? How are those numbers arrived at? What time did this occur? Where is the evidence?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGGlnHe3Rgc
I posted that without comment above.
Hmmm it was 570,000 votes for BIden and 3200 for Trump. That’s 178 to 1 that I rounded to 175 to 1 and rounding 570,000 to 600,000 came up with a typo to 700,000.
Obviously from your four questions, you’re going to dispute those numbers in the you tube link. If you follow that link you will find a transcript in the comments from yours truly with the numbers.
I only know what I see on the internet. Depends on where you go. Is the claim that PA received 700,000 more absentee votes than it mailed out true or fake news? This election is much like “Global Warming” it looks fishy. The guy who’s party wants to defund the police, ban fossil fuels and require everyone to wear a mask everywhere wins?
Yes, but when and where did these things happen? Specifically, what time and place? It’s all the same allegations with missing specifics that have been thrown out of court.
I think these people have been enlisted to tell a story that “looks fishy.” They even believe it. But it all lacks specifics, which is why you can’t provide any.
Given the lack of time and place, why is this guy’s testimony any more credible than the swathe of failed testimony over the past 3 weeks in multiple states?
What makes him the really real one? Gut feelings?
Steve, “I only know what I see on the internet. Depends on where you go. Is the claim that PA received 700,000 more absentee votes than it mailed out true or fake news?”
I think this is the issue. Where are you reading such stories? Are they sources with journalistic standards?
His story is credible because he is an experienced election official, poll watcher, and data scientist. He recognizes suspicious behavior, evasiveness, and deceit.
When is his claim being submitted to a court?
‘Data scientist’ is irrelevant to his observation.
The committee is a partisan agenda planning group, not a real bipartisan legislative committee. He was not sworn in, and there was no cross examination.
Why did he wait 3 weeks to report this serious accusation? Why didnt he tell overseeing officials on that day in real time?
There were cameras in the counting room. Where is the video?
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/09/this-map-shows-how-biden-won-back-pennsylvania-in-the-2020-election.html
Again, you guys need to look at the pattern of votes this year compared to 2016, to see that the pattern does not fit the FRAUD scenario being presented.
Biden improved in many counties in Pa over Hillary, by a few % points, wile in Philly county he lost a couple of points.
Nothing unusual in Delaware county where our ‘data scientist’ reported big anomalies, compared to other counties.
“Biden significantly improved upon Clintons margins in the areas surrounding Philadelphia. He won Delaware County by about 26 percentage points, after his predecessor as the Democratic nominee carried it by 22 points.
In Montgomery County, his 26 percentage point advantage beat out Clintons 21-point edge. Biden also carried Chester County by about 17 percentage points, compared with the former secretary of states roughly 10 percentage point margin of victory.
Further north, Biden won Lackawanna County by more than 8 percentage points. Clinton carried the area, which includes the president-elects hometown of Scranton, by about 3 points.
It wasnt just eastern Pennsylvania that boosted Biden. He improved upon Clintons margins in the blue counties of Dauphin, where the state capital of Harrisburg sits, and Centre County, which includes Penn State University.
He also saw a bump in support in western Pennsylvania. Allegheny County, home to the states second-most populous city, Pittsburgh, backed Biden by about 20 percentage points. Clinton won the area by roughly 17 percentage points in 2016.”
Stephen “you wont reconsider any opinion. You do nothing but trumpet every anti-leftist cause.”
Good example right here:
“. It was targeted fraud mainly in Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, Clarke County, and Fulton County.”
I showed you that the voting data out of Philly, Detroit, and Milwaukee, and the rest of their respective states, simply FAIL to fit that scenario.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2020/11/benfords-law-part-2-inflated-vote-totals-or-just-the-nature-of-precinct-sizes/#comment-557799
But here you are repeating the claim, ignoring the contradictory facts!
The analysis by Spencer does not contradict fraud. He is just showing that Benford’s Law doesn’t necessarily identify fraud.
Not what I showed you. Look at the comment linked. It is showing Trump gaining votes in ‘suspect’ cities, Biden gaining votes in ‘not suspect’ suburbs all over.
In the fraud scenario, for example, Biden must gain hundreds of thousands votes in Detroit, to win Michigan by 150,000.
He simply didnt gain in Detroit, but did all over rest of Michigan.
The fraud scenario simply doesnt fit reality.
Does that matter, Stephen?
Pennsylvania State legislature is starting to balk at giving electors to Biden.
No, you referenced an article by the Philadelphia Examiner. Who knows if it is even accurate. But, I just wanted to concede the point you made, which is a good one. Before the election, the leftist narrative was that Trump was losing the Suburban female vote. It would make sense that if they were going to stuff ballot boxes, it would be in the suburbs. But, you can assume reporting from the Philadelphia Examiner is about as accurate as Wikipedia. The Examiner says Trump did a lot better in Philadelphia than last time. Maybe he would have done even better if some of Philadelphia’s boxes hadn’t been stuffed. That article doesn’t really prove anything. But I liked your point.
“But, you can assume reporting from the Philadelphia Examiner is about as accurate as Wikipedia.”
If you think their reporting of the vote counts in various Pa counties is not accurate, it is easily fact checked with the State website.
So go ahead and check!
Let me know what you find.
I doubt you will, because it will prove your narrative wrong.
Belief, without evidence, that the mainstream media lies gives you a warm and fuzzy self-righteous feeling.
Why mess that up with a fact-check?
Not the Pa State House. It is a Republican only group of State Senators meeting in a hotel. No cross examination. Sworn in? Unclear.
Fox News described it as the Pennsylvania State Legislature. That was their caption under the video.
Fox exaggerated. It was a meeting convened at a hotel by a policy unit within the PA Republican senate. Not the legislature – no Democrats invited, wrong forum etc.
https://policy.pasenategop.com/
Fox is being Fox. Brazenly partisan. Yawn.
Actually no. Fox has been hard on Trump lately, calling all claims fraudulent and being blatantly anti-Trump.
No, they’ve promoted most of the election fraud claims without qualifying that they lack substance.
Tucker Carlson took exception to Sidney Powell’s claims recently, and who can blame him? They are wild, fanciful, false in demonstrable fact and otherwise completely unsubstatiated. And it’s still remarkable that Carlson chose not to sing that particular prayer. It’s got to take something quite unholy to make Tucker Carlson drop a juicy conspiracy theory.
The high garbage of her claims is no doubt why the Trump legal campaign took the otherwise unnecessary step of distancing itself from her.
I went over to Fox to see their latest fraud allegation articles, and guess what – they have a whole section called Voter Fraud Concerns:
https://www.foxnews.com/category/politics/elections/voter-fraud-concerns
Updated daily.
I noticed that there had been a couple of segments elsewhere on their site where a reporter had said many of the fraud claims were without substance. That’s unexpected, but at least it stops them being utterly biased trash.
But otherwise Fox is reliably the dispatch office for the Republican party. Your favourite hits are being promoted there, Stephen. For example:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pa-poll-watcher-a-navy-vet-alleges-missing-usb-cards-up-to-120000-questionable-votes
Not one sentence quetioning the allegations in that article. Just regurgitating the Trump campaign talking points. That’s Fox being Fox.
“Fox News described it as the Pennsylvania State Legislature. That was their caption under the video”
Stephen, this story is quite easy to find. You simply need to break out of your information bubble.
I know you leftists want Fox censored because they’re reporting what’s in the news, which are instances of election irregularities and fraud, but those darn Bill of Rights keep getting in your way.
You can’t keep your story straight, Stephen.
In the space of two posts you go from saying Fox is rejecting all Trump election fraud claims to then defending Fox for reporting Trump election fraud claims.
It depends on what Fox reporter is reporting. Several describe Trump’s claims using the word fraudulent every time when they have no clue if they’re fraudulent claims.
It depends on whether the reporter has his head up Chris Wallace’s ass or not.
“Fox has been hard on Trump lately, calling all claims fraudulent and being blatantly anti-Trump.”
THere are reporters at Fox who follow journalistic ethics, fact-check before reporting, report facts that the govt may not like, ask hard questions in interviews of all.
Stephen thinks they’re the bad ones.
Then there are the ones that work for the Trump Propaganda Dept, like Maria Bartiromo. They have their heads very very very far up DT’s ass.
Rather than fact-checking the Dear Leader’s claims, or asking him hard questions, they fawn, cheer-lead, amplify his baseless claims.
They are the good ones, says Stephen. Stephen must think Russia Today does solid reporting. He thinks the North Korean method of journalism is the good one. He must think that Joe Goebbels did it best.
By the way, Happy Thanksgiving to Dr. Roy Spencer and the rest of my fellow weather/climate nuts.
In Wisconsin, absentee votes require a written request. There are tens of thousands of mail in ballots without the written requests. Let’s see how that works out.
Context
https://www.wisconsinwatch.org/2020/11/trump-wisconsin-ballot-recount-democratic-counties/
Hi ho, Hi ho,
It’s of to SCOTUS
We go.
The Trump team is submitting an appeal to the Supreme Court to protest the kangaroo court rulings in Pennsylvania. I thought this was the aim of the exercise all along.
So did everybody else. The Trump campaign has made no secret of its intent.
“Kangaroo court”
You’re a fantasist. 3 Republican-appointed judges presided over the latest Giuliani attempt and slammed it. You might be interested in what they said.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-election-republican-judges-deny-pennsylvania-appeal-trump-to-try-supreme-court/2ASHOKIC5D2VZR57DWBMUYA6ZM/
The link to the judges opinion can be found at that news item.
Lets be honest. There is no need for evidence. Gordon is hoping the SCOTUS with its new Trump appointees, will simply be loyal to him, the Dear Leader, and come up with something, anything, to throw out the election results.
And of course, he fails to understand what SCOTUS does.
Gordon Robertson aka Mr Creosote, you are a Canadian so what do you care? Anything interesting happening up there? How are those oil sands coming along, we need that oil down here so strip mine every last drop you hear!
The SCOTUS is not going to touch this case with a ten foot SCROTUS!
The spin from the Trump campaign legal effort would have you believe that several hundred thousand votes lead for Trump in Pennsylvania mysteriously vanished overnight.
The typical refrain begins, “when I woke up aftedr election day…”
It’s all BS. And provably so. We have an internet archive.
At 4:55am on Wednesday, Trump’s lead was 542,000.
https://tinyurl.com/yy8dogj7
By 5:20pm Wednesday the margin had narrowed to 303,000 votes.
https://tinyurl.com/y5xxejg2
Thursday 5:06pm the margin had narrowed to 90,542.
https://tinyurl.com/y22tsfwc
Friday 7:42 am the margin had narrowed to 8,000 votes.
https://tinyurl.com/y68z8n3m
By 10:25am, Biden pulled ahead.
https://tinyurl.com/y6myeuye
So don’t believe the spin coming from the Giuliani show. The counting didn’t stop and suddenly Trump lost his lead. It was a steady and slow change over 3 days.
barry…”The spin from the Trump campaign legal effort would have you believe that several hundred thousand votes lead for Trump in Pennsylvania mysteriously vanished overnight”.
New evidence has come to light in Pennsylvania by an ex-Navy pilot who now specializes in security. He claims to have witnessed an unidentified person with a bag full of USB thumb drives inserting and downloading data from them into a voting machine. When it was brought to the attention of the voting regulators he was ignored. When he asked for a computer audit, he was ignored.
The voting machines are supposed to be secure. How the heck does a voting machine come with a USB port that allows unknown data to be entered? Some are even connected to the Net, which is illegal.
So do you agree that Trump’s lead in PA didn’t disappear overnight from election Tuesday to Wednesday?
That is the point I demonstrated with time-stamped tallies archived on the web linked above.
I agree that on election day, Trump lead Pennsylvania by over a half-million votes, but the media would not call it, and all these mail-in ballots kept appearing that were not subject to close inspection by Republican poll watchers. And, they kept counting, and miraculously Biden gained one percent more than Trump, amazing. And, Biden received almost 80 percent of those mail-in ballots. That’s what I agree to.
Sure, that happened over three days of counting.
There were plenty mail in ballots to get through on the day, and others that had been posted on election day that arrived later – in line with PA election law. It takes time to count mail in ballots because they go through a screening process.
This is neith unusual nor unexpected. We were told for weeks prior to the election that there would be an extraordinary amount of mail in ballots. We were told by many that election day would favour Trump and then Biden should come in stronger with the mail in ballots.
Put together all this:
1) Mail in ballots heavily favour Dems. Trump said vote on the day, Joe said be safe. Trump supporters love Trump and would have mostly voted in person.
2) Mail in ballots were mostly urban voters. The largest tranches would have been urban, because of population and because COVID is heavier in the cities, prompting people to play it safe. Especially Democrats who are more likely to play it safe than Trump supporters.
3) Biden won less of the percentage of Philadelphia than Hillary did, and Trump improved there.
2016
Hilary 82.5%
Trump 15.37%
2020
Biden 82.1%
Trump 17.9%
If Hillary carried Philadelphia by 82%, it is reasonable to think Biden could carry it by 81.2%.
The final results are broadly consistent with pasty elections, and worse for Biden than polling, and very much within the bounds of likelihood.
The only reason anything seems fishy is because that theme has been hammered on for months on end by Donald Trump and his supporters.
You and Nate might want to hash that out because that is contrary to his earlier argument that Trump did well in Philadelphia. Also, mail-in ballots in 2016 were insignificant. You two are all over the place.
“You and Nate might want to hash that out because that is contrary to his earlier argument that Trump did well in Philadelphia”
I provided the percentages for Trump in my comment – which is exactly as Nate describes: an improvement from 2016 to 2020.
Read. More. Carefully.
And because you seem to have missed the point – I’m showing you the percentages in Philly in 2016 to demonstrate to you that the Democrat vote there got 82% of the vote – therefore, it is not a surprise that Biden should get nearly that percentage in 2020.
And because the majority of those mail ballots are from Pilly, and because more Democrats that Republicans did mail-ins, the mail ballots were, predictably, heavily in favour of Biden.
Do you get it now?
Adding in brackets for clarity:
And because the majority of those (Pennsylvania) mail ballots are from Pilly, and because more Democrats that Republicans did mail-ins, the mail ballots were, predictably, heavily in favour of Biden.
Typo – Biden 81.2% Philadelphia, not 82.1.
“And, they kept counting, and miraculously Biden gained one percent more than Trump, amazing. And, Biden received almost 80 percent of those mail-in ballots. That’s what I agree to.”
First of all he got 70-something percent, and in some counties much less, of mail in votes.
Just as you noted elsewhere, in all elections, the reported vote counts arrive in jumps. When a heavily red rural county reports, the republican may get 90% of the vote. When a very blue urban center reports, the Dem may get 90% of the vote.
Numbers are numbers, Stephen. Math is math. Nothing miraculous about it.
In this case D and R voters decided to separate themselves by method of voting, for thoroughly explained reasons.
If you choose to ignore this fact because it enhances your suspicions, that’s up to you.
Gordon, if the SCOTUS throws out Giuliani’s case….
Will you finally admit it isn’t worthy?
Or will you find some way to call a Republican-dominant, highest court of the land, a “kangaroo court?”
barry…”Gordon, if the SCOTUS throws out Giulianis case.
Will you finally admit it isnt worthy?”
No. I have read about too many irregularities in the vote counting process and no matter what anyone claims, I regard the process as having been tainted.
It’s not a matter of how many votes have been affected it’s about how deep does the corruption extend. Nothing short of a full investigation will satisfy me. I think Trump’s team has revealed significant evidence to raise doubt and Biden should not be declared winner till a full investigation is completed.
Time should not be a factor, it’s not good enough to declare a winner for the sake of declaring a winner. The totals are far too close to be talking like that.
Gordon,
It is possible the Pennsylvania legislature picks their electors instead of allowing the fraudulent election to pick them.
Stephen` Paul Anderson
Where are your irrefutable proofs that the election was ‘fraudulent’ ?
J.-P. D.
Stephen…”It is possible the Pennsylvania legislature picks their electors instead of allowing the fraudulent election to pick them”.
Will be interesting. I still think SCOTUS should rule on this, especially in Pennsylvania. Prior to the election at least one SCOTUS judge commented that the mail-in procedure there seemed unconstitutional.
A full investigation into election fraud is required even if it takes several months. When you have a voting machine that can accept a USB thumb drive and allegations of voting machines that can be accessed online, all of that needs a proper investigation, not by Biden, before Biden gets any access to the WH.
“I have read about too many irregularities in the vote counting process”
Yes Gordon, I have also been reading about the Flat Earth. Too many irregularities to be a coincidence. I think it should be thoroughly investigated before we allow any more satellite launches.
“Time should not be a factor, its not good enough to declare a winner for the sake of declaring a winner.”
Our Canadian friend doesnt think the US needs a transition to a fully functioning govt anytime soon.
Thanks for your input Gordon. We will file that tidbit where it belongs.
How do you know those irregularities are genuine issues?
How can you judge that if you don’t even question them?
SCOTUS is going to throw Giuliani’s case out if they even hear it, which is doubtful. But you will still believe it has merit no matter what.
“I am sure Trump will accept the results once his legal options have been exhausted.”
You said.
But you won’t?
All your opinion needs is enough noise to pad it. You don’t need facts at all, it seems.
barry…”How do you know those irregularities are genuine issues?”
You’ll never know unless official sources investigate the claims. If Biden was so far ahead that the outcome was indisputable, that would be one thing. However, the totals are separated by only a few tenths of one percent in key states and with eye witnesses coming forward and reporting irregularities, it seems only fair they be heard in an unbiased court.
Judges throwing out cases without hearing from such eye-witnesses is not democratic.
Judges considered the testimonial evidence and found it lacking.
“Judges throwing out cases without hearing from such eye-witnesses is not democratic.”
Courts are not democratic. That’s a sad irony of all these lawsuits.
Bias has nothing to do with it. Republican-appointed, conservative judges have been throwing out these cases with the same withering commentary.
The problem is not the courts and the judges, the problem is that the lawsuits are threadbare.
It’s not enough to say that there has been irregularities, you have to demonstrate it. This the lawsuits have failed to do.
If your anti-Trump conspiracy necessarily ropes in the legal world, the media world, authorised election watchdogs like the cyber security authority at Federal level, Republican governors, Republican secretaries of state, Republican judges, Republican legislatures….
Then your conspiracy theory is beyond crazy.
“The totals are far too close to be talking like that.”
The margins are too wide in every state, except perhaps for Georgia.
Bush v Gore 2000 hung on a few hundred votes. I doubt there has ever been a post-presidential election litigation with a margin of more than 10 000 votes.
Giuliani inadvertently summed up everything wrong with the Trump legal campaign to overturn the election when he said:
“Networks dont get to decide elections. Courts do.”
Actually, Giuliani is wrong; legislatures get to decide.
No, voters do.
No, in Presidential elections, the electoral college does.
And the EC is picked by the legislature. The legislature trumps all.
No, the electoral colleges elects the president. The voters elect the electors. The lectoral college doesn’t decide, they reflect the will of the people.
This is the whole problem with the Trump legal campaign. The will of the people is unimportant to them.
What does Article 2 of the Constitution say, Barry?
I know how the system works, Stephen. But apparently you don’t.
US states have laws that require the choosing of electors to reflect the will of the people. It would be illegal in practically every state to do otherwise.
It’s incredible to me that you are tacitly trying to argue that the will of the US electorate doesn’t matter in presidential elections.
It’s an indictment on Trump’s influence that his followers tend to think like this.
When you abrogate the will of the poeple you kill democracy.
Democracy is mob rule. We’re a Republic.
“November 29, 2020 at 9:46 AM
And the EC is picked by the legislature. The legislature trumps all.”
No Stephen. No state legislature picks the electors.
They have ALL long ago passed laws giving that choice to their voters.
Just stop spouting BS.
A republic is a representative democracy, you twit.
republic (n)
a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch
James Madison: “[We] define a republic to be, or at least may bestow that name on, a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people, and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure, for a limited period, or during good behavior. It is essential to such a government that it be derived from the great body of the society, not from an inconsiderable proportion, or a favored class of it; otherwise a handful of tyrannical nobles, exercising their oppressions by a delegation of their powers, might aspire to the rank of republicans, and claim for their government the honorable title of republic. It is sufficient for such a government that the persons administering it be appointed, either directly or indirectly, by the people; and that they hold their appointments by either of the tenures just specified.”
“Democracy is mob rule. Were a Republic.”
OMG, Stephen has an astonishingly child-like intellect.
He even takes the names of the political parties literally, and thus Democratic Party = Pro-Democracy = Bad, and Republican Party = Pro-Republic = Good.
No, not “were a Republic.” You wish “were a Republic.”
Still a Republic.
Correct, I’m not pro-democracy. I’m pro-republic.
I see, you don’t want monarchy but an an oligarchy.
“Correct, I’m not pro-democracy”
democracy (n)
a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives
barry…”Giuliani inadvertently summed up everything wrong with the Trump legal campaign to overturn the election when he said:
Networks dont get to decide elections. Courts do.”
You seem to think the process is finished because some lower courts with biased judges made a ruling. In the Bush affair it went to the federal Supreme Court.
You miss the point.
The voters decide elections.
The judiciary only adjudicates disputes.
This is the problem with the Trump campaign. They believe, as Giuliani actually said, that courts decide elections.
It’s all over – except for the president who is unable to accept defeat and is unable to accept the reality of a pandemic. And for the ones who are blindly following this dishonest person. He is desperately trying to steel the election. If there was a fraud it is far more likely to be caused by a live Putin than a long dead Chavez!
Does anyone recall the triage method Dr. Spencer referenced during the Ebola outbreak? I can’t recall who it was, maybe the Greeks, but they had the recovered care for the sick. With some hospitals buckling from covid cases this seems like the time to employ the recovered in their care.
The evidence is excellent that people who contracted Ebola remain immune for years afterwards.
Barry, you must be thrilled with Biden picking John Kerry as his climate czar. Aren’t Czars in Russia? I think you leftists must love those Marxist connections.
All I know, Mr Anderson, is that you are here misrepresenting the history.
Here is the Marxist connection:
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/25/823893821/trump-pardons-michael-flynn-who-pleaded-guilty-to-lying-about-russia-contact
J.-P. D.
Czars and marxists? They were bloody enemies! Your understanding of history is blatantly lacking.
Stephen took it right off the rails when he stupidly replaced the political meaning of czar with the imperial meaning. No need to join him there.
The leftists think they are royalty.
Hahahaha. I thought leftists were socialists? Or are they not in bed with capitalists, like the Clintons? No, no, appartently today leftists believe they are royalty.
One thing is sure. You are an idiot.
Socialist elites think they are royalty. The rules they set for others don’t apply to themselves.
You mean they appoint family members to top positions?
” Pennsylvania Supreme Court dismisses lawsuit against mail ballots with prejudice in another defeat for Trump ”
Wash Post
J.-P. D.
Courts are based on evidence and facts, just like science.
Two worlds colliding.
I have the solution to the whole problem.
The Republicans regard the election as invalid.
Declare it void and go to the next option.
Appoint the majority leader of the House of Representatives.
All hail President Pelosi.
We have to follow the Constitution.
With or without the amendments?
The key legal elements here are the 11th amendment and the Presidential Succession Act 1947.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Succession_Act
These specify that if the President is not available the VP steps up.
If neither President or Vice-President are available the next in line is the Majority Leader of the House of Representatives.
It’s not well drafted. Their are legally conceivable situations in which Donald Trump, Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi could simultaneously arrive at the Inaugeration with valid legal arguments that they should be sworn in.
Fortunately it probably won’t go that far.
I would say the key legal element is Article 2. You know, that article that came after the first.
What about Article 2? You know, that one that came after Article 1.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/20511
I think we need to go back to paper ballots with hanging and dimpled chads. Those are easier to deal with than trying to uncover software “irregularities.”
A Dominion executive stated, “Trump is not going to be elected. I made effing sure of that.”
I’m sure that’s a well-verified quote there.
Rob Mitchell
” A Dominion executive stated, ‘Trump is not going to be elected. I made effing sure of that.’ ”
Is that a result of your inventiveness?
Or do you have a source? Then… post it!
J.-P. D.
binny…”Is that a result of your inventiveness?
Or do you have a source? Then post it!”
If you were not so vituperous you’d have looked it up yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ_ks_sNITg
I now await your ‘shoot the messenger’ vituperosity.
Robertson
Only contrarian idiots believe in what OAN produces.
That you belong to them doesn’t wonder me at all.
J.-P. D.
I had never heard of One America News Network until this video. So I looked it up.
First of all, I wanted to see exactly how ONA promotes itself.
https://www.oann.com/about/
Well it’s very clear what ‘lens’ they wish to view America through.
So, are they an objective news organization with respect to Trump?
Here’s a tweet ONA put out:
“President Trump recently gave a speech, thanking his supporters in the media. Not a single mention of One America News — one of his GREATEST supporters”
So this ‘news’ organization is one of Trump’s “GREATEST supporters?”
Gentle reader, how does that comment rate on your neutrality scale?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-year-of-batshit-crazy-at-one-america-news-trumps-new-favorite-cable-news-channel
OAN is nuts.
They gleefully spread both Trump and Russian propaganda.
They said out loud that they are striving to be the new Propaganda Arm of DT.
“One American News Network, a right-wing cable channel, announced Thursday it will file an amicus brief in favor of the Trump administration in CNNs lawsuit over revoked White House press credentials for its reporter Jim Acosta. ‘Acostas actions are stopping our people from getting their questions answered, so that we can give our audience the REAL NEWS DIRECT FROM OUR PRESIDENT,’ the networks CEO said in a statement”
Then Trump can get his news there, feedback loop restored.
This well-verified quote is a paraphrase overheard by someone who infiltrated a conference call in September.
I do hope it gets submitted to a court. Not sure why it has taken so long.
McStupid…”Gordon Robertson aka Mr Creosote, you are a Canadian so what do you care? ”
I’m actually Scottish, based on my DNA. I am only legally Canadian.
I care because whoever is running the US affects us here in Canada. I am concerned about the inability of the hill billy Democrats to deal with covid and global warming issues. The Democrats are a load of wannabee eco-weenies who have no idea what they are talking about let alone the possible catastrophic effects of their proposed actions.
“Gordon Robertson says:
November 2, 2020 at 8:54 PM
steve…”the climate crisis or what ever climate scientists are calling it today is a looming existential catastrophe. I call it bullshit”.
Same with covid theory and the tests. Medical science and alarmist climate science have a lot in common.”
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘
You can’t seem to keep your stories straight!
This was imho inevitable:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/11/29/trump-claims-fbi-and-justice-department-may-have-helped-rig-election/?sh=49bced755c01
J.-P. D.
binny…both the FBI and the DOJ co-operated with the Obama admin trying to discredit Trump re Russian collusion. Why is it so strange to think they have failed to investigate his allegations of fraud?
Robertson
Stop your stupid, contrarian bullshit.
You are talking incompetent nonsense all the time about anything, be it climate, the election, the Moon, Einstein etc etc.
Why don’t you simply shut up, Robertson?
J.-P. D.
Might as well tote up the list:
The mainstream media
Dominion voting machine executives
Smartmatic voting software executives
City Democrats
Democrat governors
Democrat appointed judges
Democrat secrataries of state
Republican appointed judges
Republican governors
Republican secretaries of state
The Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council
Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency
U.S. Election Assistance Commission Chair
National Association of Secretaries of State President
National Association of State Election Directors President
The FBI
The Department of Justice
are all in on the conpiracy to rob Trump of the election.
Some on that list conspired, but some didn’t but want to see Trump lose badly, so they’re willingly obstructing, obfuscating, piling on, and spouting propaganda when they don’t really have the first clue what happened, like you. They know something nefarious probably did happen but don’t care. They just want to see Trump out.
sorry, wanted to see Trump lose, badly
Barry, why are you such a leftist? Where is this utopia? Where has it ever been?
Joe Biden will never get a chance to implement his utopian ideology. His ideas will wreck the economy and the country before implementation.
You’ve heard nothing about my political views. You have no idea.
I have admired and criticised politicians across the political spectrum. John McCain was an outstanding human being and a creditable conservative representative. My top 2 US presidents would be Abraham Lincoln and Dwight D Eisenhower, both Republicans (though the Republican party of those times was quite different to today). I think Trump is utterly unfit for the office of the president. That’s not because I’m a ‘leftist.’ That’s entirely based on his actions.
I spend the majority of time on these forums debunking disinformation. There has been mountains of that from the Trump campaign. They have done significant damage to US democracy and public discourse over the last 3 weeks.
I have enjoyed the twitterer in chief’s antics over the last 4 years. It’s been like an absurd sit-com, or an extended episode of Yes, Minister, but the American version. I have attended it all with bemusement.
But the mass delusion he has led his followers into is the most damaging thing he has done. He has divided the country with lies. It’s not quite so funny anymore, but the sheer brazen BS of it all is still quite stunning, and the willingness for his followers to mindlessly accept it is fascinating. How do they see past his low character, flim-flam man antics, and obvious narcissism? It must be his awesome policy initiatives…
barry, I like that, “twitterer-in-chief”! I’ve been guilty of enjoying that also, especially as it keeps the Trump Degangement Syndrome (TDS) going.
I can’t imagine the number of Leftists adversely affected. Pelosi probably aged 8 years in the 4 years.
And, it will get worse when he leaves office. He’s not the type to retire quietly. Even when he plays golf, he has a way of keeping Leftists agitated and riled.
John McCain? Conservative? Those words don’t belong in the same sentence. John McCain was a self-serving egotist. I’m glad he never became President.
McCain fought for his country, was captured, trotured, and then refused repatriation from his captors because he wouldn’t leave his buddies behind.
What do you now about egotism, I wonder?
Yeah, Stephen has this particular conspiracy all worked out. Who did what when, where, and why. He just cannot quite put it into coherent sentences.
There’s likely going to be shortages of popcorn before this is over.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/11/the_smartest_man_in_the_room_has_joined_sidney_powells_team.html
There are two things we know for certain. 1) The Trump Campaign has a lot of money to spend. 2) There a lot of very talented people who are willing to take the campaign’s money to do the dirty work of casting doubt on the outcome.
Looks to me like the soon-to-come vaccines will have a huge impact – much bigger than what the medical community is letting on.
Heres the key stat:
[The population age 65 and over has increased from 37.2 million in 2006 to 49.2 million in 2016……]
The number of deaths will fall like a rock after that age group gets a vaccine.
And not a long wait considering 40 million doses are expected to be available by the end of December.
About 75% of Covid deaths are from the 65 and older age group. If they can get vaccinated by the end of January?
Huge difference.
The right in the US has been drifting towards authoritarianism for a while now, and the Trump era has accelerated that drift.
What was once a hypothetical uni debate has morphed into an actual position among US conservatives on the righter half of their own political spectrum: that the US is not a democracy (“It’s a Republic!”)
I don’t think that these voicesa are championing republicanism so much as dimishing democracy. But this refrain is usually trotted out to reject a popular vote.
In the last few weeks we’ve seen conservatives actually push the idea that (Republican majority) state legislatures should break their own laws and assign electors to the electoral college on their own cognizance rather than by the will of the people.
Conservatives even at the very top of the political establishment are casting their political opponents as the enemy instead of just opponents. Democrats are described as socialists, or marxists (but sometimes in bed with Wall Street – go figure), or otherwise demonised en masse – a narrative that they are a mortal threat to the United States. Extremist nonsense, and yet eagerly embraced by many conservatives.
Conservatives in the US are now saying that courts decide elections, as if litigation trumps the electorate. The will of the people is no longer of any import.
All these are warning signs of a slide into facism.
I would not be at all surprised if that is what happens should another Trump-like, but politically craftier demagogue becomes president down the road.
And all of your opinionated characterization of the Right is countered by the Left attempting to do away with the Electoral College.
Politics is the continual fight for power. That’s why the Constitution is so important. And why uninformed voters are so dangerous.
“Politics is the continual fight for power. Thats why the Constitution is so important.”
Yes. Then why do you guys so easily abandon it when policies you favor are being enacted?
“And why uninformed voters are so dangerous.”
Yes. Then why are you guys so fond of sources that feed your biases, misinform you, and don’t bother with journalistic standards?
Troll Nate tries the same “false accusation” technique with politics, like he tries in science.
That’s hilarious, and you have it backasswards. Which governors have acted like tyrants the last year? Which side is constantly yelping about censoring the other side? Which side censors the other side? Which side has discussed creating “lists” of Trump supporters? Which side has used Federal agencies against the other side. Which side unlawfully used FISA to spy on the other side. You either have your head in the sand or up Nate’s ass.
As Raffensperger (the republican secretary of state in Georgia) says : “the truth matters” and “There are those who are exploiting the emotions of many Trump supporters with fantastic claims, half-truths, misinformation, and frankly, they are misleading the President as well, apparently.”
Mr. Anderson – you are apparently a naive victim of these lies and misinformation.
The wikipedia entry on this organization makes for great reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_America_News_Network
Herring Networks, I like it.
Bet Robert’s nickname is Red.
THE REALITIES
TRUMP LOST. ZERO CHANCE OF WINNING!
COVD HAS BEEN STILL IS VERY BAD.
THE VERDICT IS STILL OUT ON THE CLIMATE.SO FAR NO SIGN OF GLOBAL COOLING. I GO BY DATA UNLIKE CONSERVATIVES WHO EHPAHSIZE WISHFUL THINKING, AND DENIAL.
I disagree with all the conservative fools on the first two items.
This does make it hard for me to side with them on the climate given how idiotic they have been on the first two items.
BIDEN will be fine. He is going to be center not left and you can see that already.
At Biden’s age his agenda is to unite the country not about political gains. He is needed in these times ,glad he won.
Trump is a liar and a fool. He has proven it with first the pandemic and now the election results.
You did support him at first, didn’t you?
I’m glad your mind is open to facts.
At one time.
Some of the conservative climate people think they are some kind of experts on the virus and the election.
My advise stick to your profession.
As someone who lectures others about sticking to your profession, you should know that the response to the virus always was and remains to be a compromise between saving lives and maintaining the economy. It is easy to do just one, and very difficult to do both. After they intentionally released the virus to the world by maintaining international travel in and out of Wuhabn long after they knew about human to human transmission and closed domestic travel, the Chinese Communists proved that the virus can be stopped if there is zero regard for personal freedom and civil rights.
Salvatore
101 % agreed.
Buona notte
J.-P. D. in Germoney
What is your point?
A very interesting confirmation of Biden’s election win, even more than Arizona and Wisconsin having certified it:
Kay Bailey Hutchison, Trump’s ambassador to NATO, says Biden is president-elect
Trump is the worst loser of all times, and… it shows.
J.-P. D.
TRUMP IS A MORON.
Picked up somewhere on Twitter:
” Fred Eshelman, owner of a venture capital firm, sued True the Vote Inc. today. He claims it duped him into giving it $2.5 million for its Validate the Vote 2020 campaign to file lawsuits to uncover fraud in the Nov. elections on behalf of President Trump. ”
https://truethevote.org/
Some people are so incredibly stupid…
J.-P. D.
I know you’d like to see those pesky Amendments removed, but our founders presciently understood that there would be people like you.
To Barry
On the contrary, I asked if you’d like to include the amendments when you continually referred to Article II of the constitution, as there have been 3 amendments that bear on that article.
You appear to have a peculiarly ‘originalist’ reading on the constitution (supposing you are doing more than just siphoning conservative tropes you’ve read), and I wondered if you had considered the impact of the amendments on Article II in your reckoning.
No amendments change the state legislatures’ authority to pick the electors in any way they see fit.
“No amendments”
I thought so.
But Jesus, you are stupid.
The constitution leaves it to the states to determine the manner of their selcting electors.
And all the states that matter in this dicussion have their own constitutions and laws that proscribe that a plurality of the electorate say who elects the president.
That’s why you keep talking about the federal constitution and not state electoral laws. Because you want to ignore state law so Trump can get elected.
It’s wondferfully ironic. Conservatives are all about the states being fierceley independent of the fed, and in any other situation would defend state law wherever it trumps federal law.
But not for Trumpites, who are not true Republican conservatives, but simply cultists worshipping The Don.
Still like to know where Stephen gets these strange ideas. Do you have a legitimate source?
The SCOTUS recently ruled specifically on this issue. They ruled that state legislators have given the choice of electors to the people, IOW the voters. Electors MUST vote according to the choice of the people of the state.
The Opinion states: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/19-465_i425.pdf
“(b) ‘Long settled and established practice’ may have ‘great weight in a proper interpretation of constitutional provisions.’ …
“Courts and commentators throughout that century recognized the
presidential electors as merely acting on other people’s preferences. And state election laws evolved to reinforce that development, ensuring that a State’s electors would vote the same way as its citizens. Washington’s law is only another in the same vein. It reflects a longstanding tradition in which electors are not free agents; they are to vote for the candidate whom the State’s voters have chosen.”
Trump is a poor loser.
Leftist myrmidon.
Did not want to say moron poor loser is what I meant.
Our presumptive Commander in Chief fractures foot while playing with his dog…..sigh!
I like Biden, and we need to give him a chance.
Barry, Nate, Salvatore, Bindidon all hate this country and would love to see its destruction. The greatest country that has ever been and ever will be. Why should anyone listen to you?
Stephen Paul Anderson
Sorry your thinking is flawed. Trump is destroying this country as well as anyone who follows this herd. He is a spreader of false misleading information. A most terrible curse on this land! There is no home of Free as long as lies and deception are tolerated and encouraged! Lies should be attacked regardless of Party affiliation. Loyalty to a Party to accept falsehood is what will destroy the Nation. Now we have a Nation where any garbage is peddled and accepted! No more rigor, evidence does not matter, maligned character without supporting evidence, no problem in the land of lies.
I used to think the media gave Trump a bad rap. After Covid hit and his terrible lies and destruction of truth made me really dislike this President! What a horrible leader he is! And now he continues to show poor leadership in all fashion. Lying, making up false accusations and his ignorant followers accept his trash like it was the greatest truth.
This blog is polluted by minds that operate similar to Trump. They make up lies and distortions of physics and will peddle these lies endlessly running threads in the thousands.
It is sad how Trump is supported. I still do not understand the blind following of someone who so easily and blatantly lies all the time.
Without Truth and Honesty a strong Nation is not possible, nor does Science work. Trump declared open War on Truth, integrity and honesty and he works to destroy any who would dare publicly discredit his deceit.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/03/former-defense-secretary-mattis-breaks-silence-and-tears-into-trump-he-tries-to-divide-us.html
You can state Biden is poor material for a President and that may be correct but blind devotion to a dishonest vindictive personality is not making this Nation Great!
Stephen, you are incredibly deluded.
I want America to succeed, as a shining beacon of democracy, progressiveness and compassion to the rest of the world.
But you and your ilk want America not to be a democracy but a republic, not to be progressive but conservative, not to be compassionate but self-interested.
And if America becomes what you want it to be, then I will mourn the loss of this beacon that shone a light of hope through the 20th century and look elsewhere for inspiration. I totally get that you could care less what people in the rest of the world think.
Norman and barry, you both have a very poor history when it comes to accepting reality.
Why should anyone listen to you?
ClintR
Again you demonstrate you are not smart and possess little intelligence. Your comment has no analysis of posts. Just a phrase you like to repeat (of course with zero evidence, evidence is a bad word to you, in your thousands of posts here you provide none!) that anyone who does not agree with your made up version of reality then that would mean they don’t accept reality because you are the one who has determined what reality is.
You are kind of dumb aren’t you. The bigger question is does anyone listen to you?
Norman, the issue here is your avoidance of reality. Don’t try to run down different trails to escape your history. Don’t try to deny your history of avoiding reality.
As a reminder, you believe that two ice cubes are hotter than one ice cube. That’s not reality, but you cling to it.
Well, here we have Raffensperger, the republican secretary of state in Georgia, describing what he believes is the reality: “There are those who are exploiting the emotions of many Trump supporters with fantastic claims, half-truths, misinformation, and frankly, they are misleading the President as well, apparently.”
Do you agree with him?
ClintR
Again you demonstrate you are not a smart person nor intelligent. Your posts are meaningless drivel.
No I did not state two ice cubes are hotter than one. Your own stupid thoughts are what create your valueless posts, by the thousands.
You deny the reality that you make up stupid physics, you tell a poster with a PhD in physics that they don’t understand physics. You hate evidence and just make up stupid posts to get some reactions.
Nothing will change your behavior. You are too dumb to know how stupid most your posts seem to intelligent people.
“Barry, Nate, Salvatore, Bindidon all hate this country and would love to see its destruction.”
A statement of a very insecure, ignorant person.
‘Anyone who disagrees with me must HATE AMERICA and want to DESTROY IT.
There is simply no other explanation that can satisfy my ego.’
This is also standard QANON type logic. People who disagree with us MUST BE EVIL. In fact they are homicidal pedophiles.
Only an extremely insecure and gullible person would buy into this crap.
OK, then tell us why you love this country and why it is the greatest country there is?
You understand that a patriot can love their country and still be aghast at the direction it has taken, right?
Right.
One reason its great is that we’re an immigrant stew.
Of the 19 bell-weather counties that have correctly picked the President in the last 10 election cycles, Trump won 18 of those counties.
Valencia County, NM, which has correctly picked the President since 1952, Trump won by 10 points.
In Westmorland County, Virginia, which has failed to be accurate only twice since 1928, Trump won by 16 points.
Ottawa County, OH, has correctly picked the President since 1964; Trump won by 23 points.
The Republicans picked up at least 10 seats in the House.
They didn’t lose one state legislature and actually picked up one.
But we somehow have to believe that Biden was such a great candidate that he overcame all those odds.
Gonna let you in on something that has probably escaped you. A huge number of people in the US are appalled by Trump, and were incensed enough from his presidency over the last four years to vote him out. And these folk tend to come from urban and suburban areas.
Of the bellweather counties, how many are urban, Stephen? I’m assuming you live there, so I assume you will be able to answer that like a straight shooter.
barry, I’ll let you in on something that has probably escaped you. The US is almost exactly divided over many issues. A large number of people suffer from “Trump Derangement Syndrome”, while a large number of people suffer from Trump adoration.
You are in the TDS cult, so I assume you will be able to admit that like a straight shooter.
How do you explain that those counties voted for Clinton and Obama?
14 of these ‘bellweather counties’ voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016.
I’m gonna guess you don’t see this as suspicious, though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_election_bellwether_counties_in_the_United_States
That’s a lie. The fact is those 19 counties correctly voted for the winner in the last 10 election cycles. Stop spreading your propaganda.
You will do or say anything and distort any point to advance your agenda.
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55062413
Stephen, it’s no lie. In fact, the article I linked corroborates what both of us have said. Trump got 19 bellweathers in 2020. Hillary got 14 in 2016.
You can easily check the 2016 results if you think it’s a lie. The counties are all listed.
My point is, it happened to Hillary, too. So do you think they were both robbed of the presidency? I doubt it.
Ahhh that tactic.
‘My data in my counties is fine, pay attention to it. Your data from your counties is fraudulent.’
The data I showed you is vote from all counties across Michigan and Pa and Wisconsin that showed slight gains for Biden over 2016. These are not your ‘suspect’ counties.
They show exactly why Biden won these states.
It seems you cannot abide facts contradictory to your belief. So it must be dismissed.
Stephen,
Your candidate lost the popular vote by 7 Million and 51-47%. He lost the Battleground states, and the Electoral College. These are the only things that matter.
But you want us to pay attention to a tiny subset of those votes that had no impact on the election, like how Dixville Notch, NH voted at midnight.
These are factoids, curiosities. But ones that JUST DOESNT MATTER.
“Of the 19 bell-weather counties that have correctly picked the President in the last 10 election cycles, Trump won 18 of those counties.”
Stephen, we’ve shown you lots of data that you’ve completely ignored that shows that Biden won by gaining in many counties, particularly suburban ones.
IDK why you would expect anyone to pay attention to your red-herring ‘data’
Fraudulent data doesn’t count.
The above you post meant for here.
Governor DeSantis proposes bill legalizing shooting rioters and looters.
Yes, I don’t think there is enough citizen on citizen shooting in the US.
If they could repeal all the laws against people shooting each other, then citizens of the US could do justice on their own terms. Small government and all that. All that time and money wasted in the courts. Could probably do away with law enforcement altogether and reduce taxes at the same time. Win/win.
And all the money not wasted in courts could be used to buy more ammo.
Of course all fatal shootings will be listed as Covid-19 deaths, so gun deaths will then drop.
Win/win/win/win.
Lovely
“It also allows for death to be the punishment for a property crime and that is cruel and unusual punishment. We cannot live in a lawless society where taking a life is done so casually and recklessly.’ says Denise Georges, a former Miami-Dade County prosecutor
Former Miami-Dade prosecutor Aubrey Webb warned that the draft was far too vague and could lead to justifiable deaths after minor infractions.
It dangerously gives armed private citizens power to kill as they subjectively determine what constitutes ‘criminal mischief’ that interferes with a business,
Someone graffiti-ing ‘Black Lives Matter’ on a wall? Urinating behind a dumpster? Blocking an entrance?
‘The Boston Tea Party members would have been lawfully shot under Floridas law by the British East India Tea Company,’ he warned “
OAN is fact based news. Yes, they are conservative. That is a good thing. CNN is political propaganda news. Look how they pushed RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA for 3+ years.
What is the criteria by which you judge ‘fact based news,’ exactly?
Do you have any?
barry, if it’s something you don’t like, it’s likely “fact”.
(You know how you hate reality.)
OAN is the only network showing the election fraud hearings. Today, a truck driver testified that he delivered a crate of filled out ballots from New York to Pennsylvania. He thought that was a bit odd and blew the whistle on it. It is being investigated.
Rob, is ONA reporting on the hearing as if they are allegations, or as if they are proven facts?
Most news outlets recognize that these are not newsworthy events.
They are not real legislative hearings, which are in the legislature, bipartisan, and witnesses are sworn in, cross examined, and witnesses from both sides are heard.
None of that here. IOW a propaganda charade masqureading as a hearing.
Yes, I know it’s not a legislative hearing. That makes my question more pertinient. If OAN are giving automatic credence to these allegations that are being aired in such a low-bar forum, then that’s even worse.
I suspect that’s exactly what OAN are doing, but let’s see what Rob says.
I watched a bit. An anchor was talking about election fraud conspiracy theories as if they were already proven facts.
Not news. Propaganda.
I hope we can all agree that the main point of the news media has been to hold the government and other organizations accountable for their statements and actions that impact the public.
They should not simply be a mouthpiece/megaphone for the government, as it is for eg North Korea. The News there is what the Dear Leader says it is.
But that is exactly what OAN aspires to do:
“One American News Network, a right-wing cable channel, announced Thursday it will file an amicus brief in favor of the Trump administration in CNNs lawsuit over revoked White House press credentials for its reporter Jim Acosta. ‘Acostas actions are stopping our people from getting their questions answered, so that we can give our audience the REAL NEWS DIRECT FROM OUR PRESIDENT,’ the networks CEO said in a statement”
My observations are that they succeed in doing just that.
Well that’s absolutely blatant, isn’t it? Completely writes off OAN as a neutral participant.
“REAL NEWS DIRECT FROM OUR PRESIDENT”
That could be the byline for a state run Chinese newspaper.
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/416954-conservative-outlet-one-america-news-files-brief-in-support-of-white-house-in
TRUMP AND CONSERVATIVE MEDIA- are cry babies.
salvatore…”TRUMP AND CONSERVATIVE MEDIA- are cry babies.”
They have something to cry about, Salvatore. I am not a conservative, my leanings are to the left side of the spectrum. However, in this case, the Conservatives are standing up for important matters like being skeptical about anthropogenic warming theory and the covid nonsense. The COnservatives are the ones defending our democratic rights, not the so-called Liberals.
On the other hand. the so-called Liberals are supporting anthropogenic warming in a deluded manner. They are talking about imposing mandatory mask and vaccine policies, while supporting the defunding of police and justifying rioting and terrorism.
My dad warned me about this. He was a left winger in that he supported the Labour movement in the UK. However, when they got silly, he was not above voting for a Tory candidate. I don’t support Trump’s economic policies and what that means for the poor, but I thing the poor will be far worse of with the Draconian policies of the Democrats.
With regard to the election, I was alarmed seeing Biden overcome a 500,000 vote deficit in Pennsylvania based on mail-in votes. It immediately struck me that something was amiss. No we are beginning to hear evidence of vote tampering from eye-witnesses.
I think the US Presidential election should be put on hold till a full investigation is completed. Factions in the State judiciary are not even willing to listen, another indication of partisan action.
For those who live in a news bubble, DT loyalist AG Bill Barr says:
“To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election,” Barr told the AP.
Nate
Yes I heard this as well. It won’t stop Trump. He has a wonderful money making machine by bilking his ignorant followers.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics/president-donald-trump-raises-more-than-170-million-since-election-day/index.html
His blind followers are middle-income and they are forking over their money to help him (people like ClintR who blindly believe in things but never have evidence or support of any of it ever) even though he is a supposed billionaire that should be able to provide the income to investigate election fraud.
Why would he not continue. He puts out a couple tweets, Fraud here fraud there…send me money to fight the evil Deep State. Great money making scheme for virtually no work at all on his part.
Who can understand the thought process of a Trump supporter?
True. Keep em angry as long as possible.
Norman, or Nomran, you’re ignorant again.
My stock account increased by 6 figures under Trump. Yet, I never contributed 1 cent to his campaign.
Keep spewing your nonsense. Idiots like you are entertaining.
The leftist propagandists are hard at it today applying their trade.
Bill Barr is a leftist, true.
No, he heads a department where 97-98% of the workers voted or contributed money to Biden. Government lawyers are the epitome of the deep state.
Thank the lord there are patriots in the Justice Dept who still believe justice should be apolitical. They do their job and find the facts and prosecute people, and none of that depends on who is President.
And Stephen, Im sure you will thank them to continue with that approach after Jan 20.
You mean like they did with General Flynn? Or the FISA court? Just fact finding.
Flynn did it to himself.
It’s amazing how many Republicans have become leftists after the election.
Leftists are in majority on the right side of the middle.
Idiots are in the majority here.
In your mind.
‘Leftists to the left of us, leftists to the right. Here we are stuck in the middle with …Trump?’
nate…”To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election, Barr told the AP.”
Is that what’s at stake here? They found some fraud, but not enough to overturn the election? Others, who stand for democracy would regard some fraud as indicating a need to take a closer look to see how deep it goes.
Barr is a gutless sob.
The rats are leaving the sinking ship.
The Nazis called the Jews rats. Is that a popular pejorative with you leftists.
Stephen,
Nazi’s beat up Leftists in the streets.
Their message was militarism, nationalism, anti-Internationalism, anti-deviant, anti-immigrant. They banned leftist trade unions. Sided with big corporations.
All these are things the Right espouses.
Just as Democratic and Republican are simply the leftover party names, they are no longer meaningful descriptions of the parties.
The National Socialist Workers Party, was simply a left-over name from the original party intended to appeal to workers, that was not an accurate descriptor of the party that later came to power.
In every election with a large population – in this case 150 million people – there are going to be some people who don’t do it correctly, and some who do it fraudulently.
That, as well as tallies not being absolutely perfect, is completely expected. All large societies have their crazies.
What a suit must demonstrate is systemic fraud that could change the poutcome of the election, not just a handful of the nutty or agenda-driven people who falsified a few votes.
Ill-done ballots, whether intentional or mistaken, are already rejected. That is not the issue. The issue is whether there has been deliberate, large scale fraud or irregularity (as in tens of thousands of votes in one state). So far, zero reliable evidence has been presented.
No, the Trump legal effort is not credible if what they are doing is trying to unearth a handful of nutty people who did it wrong. That is a waste of time and money.
The legal fiasco continues.
A case to turn around the Wisconsin result, by Sidney Powell, she who blames Chavez and China for stealing the election, demanded 48 hours of election footage from…. (drumroll)….
A voting centre in Detroit Michigan.
One of the plaintiffs they named tweeted as proceedings started that they hadn’t given their permission to be on the suit.
And because they screwed up with missing filings and other information, like the addresses of defendants, they failed to get a requirement for defendants to respond before the electoral college votes.
https://tinyurl.com/y55dfuwk
This is great stuff.
Barry and Nate, the Ministers of Propaganda.
Martial law!!!! Crazy or desparate?
Stephen, this stuff is on the record. Wishing it were otherwise really isn’t going to work. It’s just going to pull you further and further away from reality.
Here are all the court documents:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18702085/feehan-v-wisconsin-elections-commission/
Here is the original complaint:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.92717/gov.uscourts.wied.92717.1.0_1.pdf
On page 50 this demand:
11. Immediate production of 48 hours of security camera recording of all rooms used in the voting process at the TCF Center for November 3, 2020 and November 4, 2020.
The TFC is in Detroit, Michigan, not Wisconsin.
Also in that complaint is argument that Dominion uses Smartimatic software in their machines, which was suppodsedly corrupted by Chavez and infiltrated by China. Problem is, both companies have stated that they do not work together nor use each others software or hardware.
At the top of that complaint is the name Derrick van Orden listed as one of 2 plaintiffs. This is the person that tweeted he did not give his permission to be listed on the complaint.
https://www.tcfcenterdetroit.com/
And here is the judge’s order that lays out the missteps taken by the plaintiffs resulting in their failure to get an expedited case.
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.92717/gov.uscourts.wied.92717.7.0_3.pdf
That’s from the court filings. It’s not propaganda. It’s what happened.
One of those links should have been to the tweet.
https://tinyurl.com/y2gopvz4
“Ministers of Propaganda.”
Sure. Along with other leftists like Bill Barr.
And Rush Limbaugh too: talking about Rudy and his team.
“You call a gigantic press conference like that one that lasts an hour and you announce massive bombshells, then you better have some bombshells. There better be something at that press conference other than what we got”, Limbaugh said. “They promised blockbuster stuff, and then nothing happened. And thats just, thats not well, its not good.
If youre gonna do a press conference like that with the promise of blockbusters, then there has to be something more than what that press conference delivered.”
[quote]The gradual decline of a society is often a self-induced process of trying to meet ever-expanding appetites, rather than a physical inability to produce past levels of food and fuel, or to maintain adequate defense.[/quote]….VD Hanson
Ok, Stephen.
So this justifies de-ligitimizing elections?
The leftists, not Trump, delegitimized it.
Cmon Stephen, Trump has spent the last 3 weeks screaming fraud. He wants people to follow him down a deep rabbit hole of and rigged elections and conspiracy by the Left and even by some of his strong Rep supporters.
But he is not able to prove a bit of it in court…
Now all the key states are certified or nearly so.
He lost. He actually was the loser. But he just cannot deal with being called a loser.
And as a result he will drag his followers along for this fantasy, until they completely lose faith in the electoral process, in democracy, in the country. And he doesnt care.
Its truly a pathetic spectacle.
And its backfiring. In Georgia, Rs may not go out and vote because they are convinced the system is rigged. If so, they will lose.
Example of “gradual decline of a society”:
“This person confirmed that Trump told those present that QAnon consists of people who “basically believe in good government,” which led to silence in the room. White House chief of staff Mark Meadows then said he had not heard the group described as such.”
Idiotic leftists fixate on what Trump says and not what he does. Words are much more important to a leftist than are deeds. Trump is probably the most consequential President in our lifetime. Conservatives recognize this. He is a gift from God.
Well, he does not seem to be doing anything apart from trying to reverse his 7+ mill. election loss and worrying about pardons! Any idea which crimes his children have done that requires pardoning?
Fraudulent numbers don’t count. This is the USA. You must be talking about the banana republic you’re from.
Yes, it is unbelievable that this is USA! Not able to conduct fair and free elections, as you insinuate! Even in states where republicans are in charge they have failed! Sounds like a banana republic to me – if you are correct. Or, alternatively, USA have been unlucky and put a Lukasjenko-type in a powerful position who clings to power and cannot accept defeat. Is USA becoming a new Belarus?
Fortunately, for a politician to be successful in my country he has to prove he is a grown-up.
‘Fanatics’ no. But we are all part of a ‘cult’
“Your cult always brings out the best in your type.”
Fantasy, Fraudulent, no.
But so often we are ‘perverting science’ and not accepting ‘reality’.
“Poor history when it comes to accepting reality.
You know how you hate reality.”
You’re living in a fantasy, Stephen. republicans are saying the results aren’t fraudulent., It’s only the screaming Truymnp-train that says otherwisae, and whenever they get to court they fail to provide reliable evidence of it.
It’s a mantra, mate, not a fact. Trump has been pushing it since BEFORE the election. Months before. And now his fans are trying to prove his prior assertions and failing dismally.
Reasonable people give up an opinion when the evidence weighs too heavily against it. Fanatics create ever more ludicrous theories so they don’t have to face the facts.
Republican judges are throwing these cases out. Republican-appointed judghes are throwing these cases out. It’s not a conspiracy. It’s just a lack of evidence. Deal with it.
barry, you’re going to have to be cautious when you use words like “fantasy”, “fraudulent”, “mantra”, “fanatics”, and such. Trying to promote standards for reality could backfire on you. Someone might try to hold you to such standards when you try to promote your cult beliefs.
We know what these terms mean when Barry uses them. And he uses them rarely, and when it seems appropriate.
Whereas you, Clint, use them all the time.
Its like you cry wolf constantly. We have learned to ignore them when you use them.
See how that works?
Well troll Nate, if I “use them all the time”, it shouldn’t be hard for you to show even one instance where I have used the four words.
Or, did you get caught lying again?
Or quite similar pejorative words. Same thing.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2020/11/benfords-law-part-2-inflated-vote-totals-or-just-the-nature-of-precinct-sizes/#comment-564584
Yup, troll Nate got caught again.
How many of you have seen the videotapes from the Georgia State Farm polling place? The Democrats cheated folks, plain and simple.
Sure, always on youtube, or in unsworn testimony, but never in court.
I wonder why is that?
Maybe because in court, people are sworn in, can perjure themselves, be cross examined. Their testimony can be compared with what other witnesses saw, what video shows, what records show.
They don’t have to win in court. He already won with the American people.
“Trump is probably the most consequential President in our lifetime. Conservatives recognize this. He is a gift from God.”
Exactly the problem. You guys think he has no flaws, or that they don’t matter. And you think what he says is true. Everything is ‘The Best Ever!’
Good example, he said we had the best economy ever. When you look at the facts you see that is obviously FALSE.
He said we had the fastest GDP growth ever last quarter! We did, but just after we had the fastest drop in GDP ever.
The recovery is unfortunately slower than the drop.
He is like the ‘Dear Leader’ who should be worshiped.
This is how cults of personality work.
No, Moses had flaws. But, Moses was a gift from God. If you’re human, you have flaws. Unlike the left, we ignore the flaws and focus on his greatness.
Mr. Anderson writes:
“Unlike the left, we ignore the flaws and focus on his greatness.”
John Kelly probably knows Trump far better than you and in his career he must have met very many different people to compare him with. And Kelly says:
“The depths of his [Trump] dishonesty is just astounding to me. The dishonesty, the transactional nature of every relationship, though it’s more pathetic than anything else. He is the most flawed person I have ever met in my life.”
What greatness do you see?
The greatest President of my life, and that includes Reagan. No one could have withstood the assault he has taken. He has stood in the vanguard between the left and us. The bravest man I’ve ever seen.
Why do you hate the ‘left’ so much Stephen?
Because there is no explanation for dismising the deep flaws in Trump, noted by Kelly and other respected people who are basically aligned politically with you.
“Unlike the left, we ignore the flaws”
Yes Stephen.
Con artists always have that effect on people.
And thats how we get cults, and Manson, and Jim Jones, and drinking the Kool-Aid.
In this instance, DT has raised over $200 million, telling people that ‘The Steal’ can be stopped. Most of that $ is not used for that effort, but goes into a slush fund for DT whatever use.
He knows by now there is no chance to stop it, but the $$$ just keeps coming. So why stop now? Who cares about its effect on democracy.
And there are plenty of people out there falling for it.
Are you one?
There are many con artists on the left. The DNC, Pelosi, Obama, Clinton, Biden, Schumer, the media, and all their willing sycophants like you.
So no answer, just whataboutism.
And false equivalence. None of them, in fact no President ever, has done what he is doing.
I answered you. You aren’t listening as always.
Nate asked you if you had given money to the Trump campaign to “stop the steal.”
If you answered the question, could you quote it? I missed the reply.
If you didn’t understand the question, he asked if you were one of those who ‘fell for it’ – “it” being the Trump campaign’s stop-the-steal fund raiser.
The election-fraud lawyers Sidney Powell and Lin Wood are urging Georgia voters not to vote in the senate run-offs if their demands aren’t met.
Their demands won’t be met because they are baseless. Hopefully Georgian Republicans won’t be as stupid as these nitwits are asking them to be, and will actually exercise their democratic right in an important election.
Both the Republican Governor and now Lt Governor of Georgia are calling the fraud assertions baseless and easily debunked.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-lt-gov-duncan-recount-senate-runoffs-trump
“Even though the guy I voted for isn’t going to win Georgia, I’m still proud that we were able to put on a fair legal election.”
Here is Rudy Giuliani’s star witness on the corruption of tabulating machines in Michigan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2f3aw9rk30
Enjoy!
That was funny!
Especially the politician trying to ask questions through his face diaper. What an idiot.
Then when she mentioned that she had to sign something that would put her in prison if she lied. She asked the panel, “Did you?”
Crickets….
It is hilarious that Clint fails to understand why her testimony is hilarious.
Hes not the sharpest knife in the deck!
Troll Nate can’t even get the trite expression right.
He’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer, in fact, he’s an idiot.
And Clint misses another joke.
What a dimwit!
Troll Nate got caught again.
I got caught assuming for a moment you have an intellect.
And BTW, the legislator, the one she asked if he had signed something, is a Republican. He is the one pointing out that her testimony just doesnt jive with the Poll book that allows them to detect a mismatch. No 30,000 extra votes found. Later she said 100,000 extra votes, that she claimed from running votes thru twice, did not show up as a mismatch. How does she even count to 30,000, or 100,000?
In court her testimony, was not corroborated by other witnesses.. A judge ruled it ‘Not credible’.
Hahaha, yes, it’s the Giuliani clown car. She’s asking Republicans if they did something shady to help the Dems win. The Repubs set up the hearing to uncover evidedence of voter fraud.
The stupid is mighty here. And very entertaining.
Nate,
The only one who’s hilarious is you. The Chairman of the Board of Smartmatic joins the Biden transition team. No worries, just another one of those coincidences.
Wise to Google before posting fake news Stephen.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-smartmatic-ceo-biden-team-d/fact-checksmartmatic-ceo-is-not-on-bidensteamsmartmatic-software-is-not-on-dominion-voting-machines-idUSKBN2801ZJ
G**Damn, why do you keep posting leftist propaganda from Google? He’s on Biden’s transition team, maroon.
These facts are Leftist? Ok Stephen.
Show us.
Again, he is on Biden’s transition team. Your “facts,” like most “facts” from the left, are fiction.
Nate is a graduate of the Goebbels School of Journalism.
I see you didnt say CEO. Ok.
Why do you think it matters?
Smartmatic has nothing to so with Dominion, which in any case not involved in fraud.
nate…”Wise to Google before posting fake news Stephen.”
It’s not unless you have the ability to separate the bs from the truth. Unfortunately, today’s media is full of fake, bs news.
Seeing as Smartmatic machines were only used in Los Angeles – where the vote was always going to be in Biden’s favour – I fail to see the interest in the Chair of of Board for Smartimatic forming part of Biden’s transition team.
Here is some information on this scoundrel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_V._Neffenger
Main thing is Smarmatic is a red herring. Nothing to do with Dominion, which in turn has zero to with fraud, as Barr determined.
nate…”Main thing is Smarmatic is a red herring. Nothing to do with Dominion, which in turn has zero to with fraud, as Barr determined”.
Straight from the CEO of Dominion.
Smartmatic also stated that they have no software shares or interests with Dominion.
Now, in the hard-nosed, fact-based world of nuthouse conspiracy theorists, these two statements are not evidence that Trump’s lawyers have made false claims. No, it is instead cast-iron proof that Smartmatic and Dominion are in cahoots as part of the grand conspiracy to steal the election.
Another thing about those bellwether counties. 19 bellwether counties had picked the President correctly the last 10 election cycles. 18 were supposedly wrong this time. Furthermore, 58 bellwether counties had picked correctly since 2000. This time, 51 of them picked Trump by a whopping 15 points on average. Of the 7 counties that picked Biden, he only won by 4 points. Why were these bellwether counties so wrong this election cycle? The demographics have been investigated. Actually, more blacks and more Hispanics voted for Trump this cycle than last. There really is only one logical answer. This election was compromised!
The GOP is stupid. They are like Opie Taylor. They believe if they play fair, work hard, and connect with the American people, their agenda will win. Capitalism, liberty, sovereignty, and the free-market will win. So, they campaigned hard and worked hard, outworking Biden. One thing they didn’t do. They didn’t cheat as Biden did. The Democrats have zero scruples, folks, ZERO! The leftists are the masterminds, and their ideals are too important to allow losing, no matter what. What have they said since 2016? Trump must lose no matter what.
The black vote for Trump went from several percent to several percent and a bit more this time around.
Hillary also had a bunch of bellweather counties (14) vote for her but Trump won. These states had all predicted the president correctly since at least 1976. 40 years.
So it looks like the election was stolen from her, too?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_election_bellwether_counties_in_the_United_States
Or maybe it’s not statistical fluke that as time goes by, eventually you’re going to see a bunch of ‘bellweather’ counties go the wrong way.
There are over 3000 counties, after all.
Barry, you keep bringing up the leftist nonsense propaganda. The 19 bellwether counties predicted since 1980 where Trump won 18. Those are the bellwether counties everyone was looking at. Go back and find another talking point. That one doesn’t work.
What talking point? I searched for what you claimed, because you never provide sources, and the first hit was the wikipedia page with bellweather counties listed for each presidential election year, where the bellweather county voted for the candidate that lost. It’s purely the statistics, no commentary.
It’s not propaganda, it’s numbers, and the commentary is my own, I didn’t get it from any website.
You can deny deny deny all you like, but it’s not going to make the facts go away, it’s only going to draw you further away from them.
Hillary won 14 bellweather states in 2016. Trump won 19 in 2020.
Are you going to make the same argument for what happened in 2020 that also in 2016?
Or are you going to kepp denying even the premise, which you can easily check it. Which, of course, you haven’t bothered to do.
You can check each of the 14 bellweather counties and their respective results in 2016.
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/elections/2016
https://dataverse.harvard.edu/dataset.xhtml?persistentId=doi:10.7910/DVN/VOQCHQ
You have the list of the 14 counties in the wiki link, and now you have 2 websites that you can check each county egainst.
Will checking facts make your head explode because it only operates in the world of rhetoric and lefty-hating?
“Hispanics voted for Trump this cycle than last. There really is only one logical answer. This election was compromised!”
Thats quite a leap. Where is the logic there, Stephen?
It seems conspiracy theorists use a different sort of logic.
What have the Democrats done since 2016? First, they tried to get the electors in 2016 to vote for Hilary. Then, they talked about dissolving the electoral college. Then, they used the FBI, CIA, NSA to spy on Trump. They used FISA to spy on his campaign. They wiretapped him. They entrapped General Flynn. They did everything they could to sabotage his inauguration. They discussed using the 25th amendment. Rosenstein appointed a special counsel, Mueller. They went after Trump campaign officials to try to get them to lie about Trump. The leftist media reported lie after lie about his family and administration. When the Mueller investigation went nowhere, a “whistleblower” comes forth with phony allegations, and the Democrats use this ruse to impeach our beloved President. All of the above did not work. Why does anyone not believe the Democrats wouldn’t stupe to any means to beat Trump? Of course, they would, including cheating in a Presidential election. BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!
“Mr. Flynn did lie, as he admitted to under oath in a court of law twice. He told investigators, falsely, that he had not communicated with Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to the United States, about possible changes to American foreign policy toward Russia …”.
https://tinyurl.com/y9oxf2c2
You’re referencing the NYT? You might as well reference Pravda. The investigating agents said he didn’t lie. Have you seen the 302’s? Neither has anyone else. And, when were they written? The Democrats have broken the social contract. To have a republic, both sides have to agree to have free and fair elections. Without upholding this agreement, a republic cannot exist.
You are apparently brainwashed! You probably also believed that Covid-19 would disappear 4th of November.
No, not brainwashed nor a mental disorder, unlike leftists.
No, Trump said the media would stop reporting on COVID after the elction, and his muppets now promulgate that brainless theme at fora such as this one.
No, COVID will be in the news as long as the pandemic continues. Trump has zero say about that, no matter what his ego tells him.
“Rosenstein appointed a special counsel, Mueller.”
Yes. Rosenstein a republican Trump appointee. Mueller a Republican.
Doesnt fit.
Rosenstein, a Trump appointee. That’s your answer. There are a lot of spineless supposed Republicans.
Yes, methinks Stephen doesn’t really know who any of the players are in these stories.
Methinks Barry and Nate are Goebbels School of Journalism graduates and paid propagandists. There’s never been a leftist cause that they didn’t support. I don’t know where they’re from, but the USA’s destruction is their ultimate goal, the miserable SOB’s that they are. No one should listen to you two.
“. I dont know where theyre from, but the USAs destruction is their ultimate goal”
This is one the weirdest stupidist claims that right wing extremists make.
The Left, specifically the ones that get elected to office, want to destroy the country!
It makes absolutely no sense. The Left has different, progressive policy goals, like advancing rights for people, like the reviled gay people, and these positive goals somehow get turned into sinister goals, to destroy America!
The only thing that makes sense is that is a propaganda tool. To make gullible followers HATE the political opponents of their side, they must be transformed into evil destroyers.
It is a classic tool of all propaganda, and indeed Goebbels perfected it.
Stephen, are you so gullible that you fall for this crap?
The only narrative was the left had a temper tantrum because Trump obstructed their “hope and change.” So, now it is BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, including compromising a Presidential Election. The social contract is over!
Sure Stephen. It works for you because youve got such devotion to the Dear Leader No evidence needed!
The social contract is not over. Trump would rather burn down the Whiote House than leave it gracefully, and his muppets are happy to get riled up, remove all social norms, and break things to serve their dear leader.
His muppets would be perfectly happy for the state legislatures of Pennsylvania, Arizona, Michigan, Georgia and Wisconsin to break their own laws and select Rump electors, instead of those chosen by the will of the people.
Trump muppets will not abide by the rulings of the court. They will ignore them, because Trump said it was rigged and so it must be rigged.
Trump muppets won’t listen to Republican governors and lawmakers in those states saying the elections were fair, because their dear leader, that honest beacon of integrity, has told them that the election was rigged.
In fact, nothing and no one could deter their views, except for the dear leader himself.
They only listen to Trump, and to those who speak for him.
Facts don’t matter. Only Trump’s Word.
The law doesn’t matter. Only Trump’s Word.
Republicans don’t matter. Only Trump’s Word.
Election results don’t matter. Only Trump’s Word.
Some more leftist propaganda for Stephen from yet another Trump supporter
Georgia Republican Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan:
“I worry that this continuous you know fanning of the flames around misinformation puts us in a negative position with regards to the January 5 runoff,”
“The mountains of misinformation are not helping the process, they’re only hurting it.”
“I can’t think of a worse playbook to hand off over the last four or five weeks to the Democrats.”
Stephen..
All of this is spinning a narrative that Trump never has done anything wrong, while the DEMS have done everything wrong.
Clearly this is good vs evil sort of thinking that you favor.
The reality is way more complex. You have many Republicans involved. Many contacts between DT campaign and Russia. Russia friendly policy. FBI doing a counterintelligence investigating because that is what they SHould Do.
You have DT trying to blackmail a country, to investigate his political oponenent. That was all on him, and Rudy!
Both parties investigate each other.
During Obama years you have many investigations. Fastxand Furious. Benghazi, Benghazi, ..9 times.
What are you talking about? Biden admitted on the video he pressured Ukraine to fire the prosecutor. He and Obama held up one billion in aid. His son was on the board of Burisma with zero experience and couldn’t speak Ukrainian. Hunter was paid $80K per month, and he didn’t attend any meetings. His only qualification was that he was a drug addict. What the hell are you talking about, you lunatic?
Stephen. Remove all context, you can make doing taxes seem nefarious.
And it fails logically. The corrupt prosecutor was not investigating Burisma.
Being a parent myself, it is a long process of learning that youve created an independent person, who will will make many choices that you wouldnt make yourself. And by the time theyre ~ 30 you MAY learn to accept it.
If Hunter Biden runs for office, vote for his opponent.
Nate. You sure like talking to yourself, I will give you that.
You are such a lying propagandist and obfuscator. He was investigating the fleeing CEO of Burisma. Do you think he was the only bad apple at Burisma? He was only the tip of the iceberg. Any amount of crime on the left is OK because your goals are pure, right?
Apparently not to just myself, John. But no need to keep reading, if it bothers you.
No Stephen.
” an anti-corruption advocate in Ukraine say the official, Viktor Shokin, was ousted for the opposite reason Trump and his allies claim.
It wasn’t because Shokin was investigating a natural gas company tied to Biden’s son; it was because Shokin wasn’t pursuing corruption among the country’s politicians, according to a Ukrainian official and four former American officials who specialized in Ukraine and Europe.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/
Your legit source isn’t a legit source. I’ve met some of the USA today reporters at a party in Brevard, Fla. There isn’t a leftist cause or politician they don’t support. They are Pravda. Biden had him ousted to help Burisma and his son.
And https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Shokin
But feel free to show us your legit ‘source’.
This actually is a legit source, unlike yours.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/hunter-bidens-ukraine-gas-firm-lobbied-state-department-to-end-corruption-allegations-emails-show_3137480.html
Really Stephen, You are a big believer in Falun Gong?
You can’t find a legitimate source that doesnt have a built-in political agenda????
“For years, The Epoch Times was a small, low-budget newspaper with an anti-China slant that was handed out free on New York street corners. But in 2016 and 2017, the paper made two changes that transformed it into one of the countrys most powerful digital publishers.
The changes also paved the way for the publication, which is affiliated with the secretive and relatively obscure Chinese spiritual movement Falun Gong, to become a leading purveyor of right-wing misinformation.”
But they are not as weird as Stephen, they do say that Flynn pleaded guilty.
Stephen.
Here is an official record of a speech by US Ambassador to Ukraine, under Obama.
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Remarks-by-US-Ambassador-Geoffrey-Pyatt-at-the-Odesa-Financial-Forum-on-September-24-2015-ukraine.pdf
He is specifically complaining about the DROPPED investigation of Burisma head, Zlochevsky, by the Prosecutor Generals Office (PGO). .
“We have learned that there have been times that the PGO not only did not support investigations
into corruption, but rather undermined prosecutors working on legitimate corruption cases.
For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, the U.K. authorities had
seized 23 million dollars in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO’s
office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure.
Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a
result the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to
Cyprus.
The misconduct by the PGO officials who wrote those letters should be investigated, and those
responsible for subverting the case by authorizing those letters should – at a minimum – be
summarily terminated.”
For context. That DROPPED investigation happened under Shokin’s time as head of the PGO. A few months after the speech above, he was fired.
At last! Some hard evidence of voter fraud.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/florida-attorney-under-investigation-moving-to-georgia-to-vote
“Trump barely shows up to work ignoring crisis”…..this is the lie perpetrated by Yahoo News today. You lying leftists never stop. You have nothing else to do but spread lies about Trump. No one believes your lying Pravda media except the corrupt, hollow, soulless sycophants on the left.
Some more leftists:
– Rex Tillerson said he is a “moron”.
– John Bolton says “unfit for office”.
– Jim Mattis says “limited cognitive ability”.
– John Kelly thinks he is harming the US.
– Mike Mullen says it’s “impossible to remain silent”.
– John Allen says “awful for the United States and its democracy”.
– William McRaven says his “leadership was putting the nation at risk”.
Rex Tillerson, John Bolton, Jim Mattis, John Kelly, et al. None of them are the man that Trump is.
Stephen` Paul Anderson
So says you a blind Trumpster who can’t see past his own hand. You have a very small view of the world and blindly accept the words of a liar and dishonest person. Strange attraction. Are you also a compulsive liar and like him because he compliments your behavior?
Norman,
I will put my view of the world up against your view any day.
Rex Tillerson for Stephen and all of us:
https://youtu.be/GRtsnJhHEfk?t=462
“Rex Tillerson, John Bolton, Jim Mattis, John Kelly, et al. None of them are the man that Trump is.”
Among the generals, Mattis, Kelly, none of them had a bone spur that kept them from serving, while not remembering which foot it was on.
None of them have said: “I like people who weren’t captured”.
Nor called “World War I dead at an American military cemetery in France ‘losers’ and ‘suckers’.”
There is simply no denying that since the election, Trump has ignored the real crisis facing the country, the surge in the pandemic, with a 9-11 number of deaths happening daily.
Instead he is only paying attention to overturning by any means his election loss, and golf.
There is simply no way to sugar coat this behavior, as anything but self serving, in a time of real crisis for the country.
I don’t know; I think Trump has been much more heroic than John McCain ever was.
Self-serving? You butt head; he’s been anything but self-serving. He serves the American people. He’s concerned about you leftist psychopaths.
“He serves the American people.”
When it comes to the Covid Pandemic that is the central crisis facing the country right now, his leadership is MIA.
He has checked out. Because it only mattered when he faced the election.
“I think Trump has been much more heroic than John McCain ever was.”
Oh Puleeez.
“McCain requested a combat assignment,[26] and was assigned to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal flying A-4 Skyhawks.[27] His combat duty began when he was 30 years old in mid-1967, when Forrestal was assigned to a bombing campaign, Operation Rolling Thunder, during the Vietnam War.[22][28] Stationed in the Gulf of Tonkin, McCain and his fellow pilots became frustrated by micromanagement from Washington, and he later wrote, ‘In all candor, we thought our civilian commanders were complete idiots who didn’t have the least notion of what it took to win the war.'[28][29]
On July 29, 1967, McCain was a lieutenant commander when he was near the center of the USS Forrestal fire. He escaped from his burning jet and was trying to help another pilot escape when a bomb exploded;[30] McCain was struck in the legs and chest by fragments.[31] The ensuing fire killed 134 sailors and took 24 hours to control.[32][33] With the Forrestal out of commission, McCain volunteered for assignment with the USS Oriskany, another aircraft carrier employed in Operation Rolling Thunder.[34] There, he was awarded the Navy Commendation Medal and the Bronze Star Medal for missions flown over North Vietnam.[35]
Prisoner of war
McCain was taken prisoner of war on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.[36][37] McCain fractured both arms and a leg when he ejected from the aircraft,[38] and nearly drowned after he parachuted into Trc Bạch Lake. Some North Vietnamese pulled him ashore, then others crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt and bayoneted him.[36] McCain was then transported to Hanoi’s main Hỏa L Prison, nicknamed the ‘Hanoi Hilton’.[37]
Although McCain was seriously wounded and injured, his captors refused to treat him. They beat and interrogated him to get information, and he was given medical care only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was an admiral.[39] His status as a prisoner of war (POW) made the front pages of major American newspapers.[40][41]
McCain spent six weeks in the hospital, where he received marginal care. He had lost 50 pounds (23 kg), he was in a chest cast, and his gray hair had turned white.[36] McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi.[42] In December 1967, McCain was placed in a cell with two other Americans, who did not expect him to live more than a week.[43] In March 1968, McCain was placed into solitary confinement, where he remained for two years.[44]
In mid-1968, his father John S. McCain Jr. was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and the North Vietnamese offered McCain early release[45] because they wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes,[46] and also to show other POWs that elite prisoners were willing to be treated preferentially.[45] McCain refused repatriation unless every man taken in before him was also released. Such early release was prohibited by the POWs’ interpretation of the military Code of Conduct, which states in Article III: ‘I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.'[47] To prevent the enemy from using prisoners for propaganda, officers were to agree to be released in the order in which they were captured.[36]
Beginning in August 1968, McCain was subjected to a program of severe torture.[48] He was bound and beaten every two hours; this punishment occurred at the same time that he was suffering from heat exhaustion and dysentery.’
I had a friend who is dead now who was on one of the hose teams on the Forrestal. I’m retired Navy. We’ve discussed John McCain before. I will say he doesn’t have a high opinion of McCain. He said he doesn’t remember John McCain on that day. He said there were a lot of heroes that day. Half the men on his hose team died. But, he doesn’t remember John McCain.
I meant he didn’t have a high opinion of McCain.
Sorry, I still think of him in the present.
I respect John McCain for his service. He was a prisoner of war. His previous prisoner of war status doesn’t make his political opinions sacrosanct or unimpeachable. President Trump has shown he is a man of great courage with little support from his own party. He has governed as a conservative. He appointed conservative judges when many in his own party wilted in the face of the leftist opposition. He has kept every promise he made during his campaign when most in the past have not. He has shown me to be more of a man than John McCain ever did, who only displayed political cowardice. John McCain’s greatest achievement is he survived in a Vietcong prison camp. So did others who didn’t use the fact to benefit their careers.
You’re funny, Nate. As a leftist propagandist, you only trumpet Republicans when they don’t act like Republicans when they wilt in the face of the leftist opposition, which McCain did time after time. Now McCain is a hero because he was jealous of Trump and decided to oppose Trump and be a media lapdog.
Stephen,
My father was career Army, served in Korea and Vietnam.
You being Navy, Im surprised that you let Trumps military transgressions pass, and your thinking about McCain.
I have respect for McCain, while not always agreeing with him. He also was courageous in his politics, not always aligning with his Party. He was respected on both sides of the aisle.
He also had old fashioned integrity. He conceded the 2008 election as a gentlemen. When a woman in his crowd tried to say his opponent Obama was a muslim, he corrected her.
That is something Trump would never do. He of course spent years pursuing the Birther lie.
Stephen Paul Anderson
Maybe you should attempt to be somewhat critical of your information sources. If you get your material from Right Wing blogs it seems to be mostly made up. This is unfortunate. If you distrust the Left you should also be leery of the Right.
Evidence shows the Right makes up 3 times the information when compared to Left. Anyone who makes up false information is wrong. But you should consider the Right lies more than the Left. Sad!
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/politifact-lies-republicans-vs-democrats/314794/
Also this story is spread on Right Wing blogs but it is totally made up. The General has no credibility but he uses his Military position to intentionally lie to the gullible followers. Sad!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fact-check-no-soldiers-died-in-nonexistent-raid-to-seize-election-servers-in-germany/ar-BB1bFpDz?li=BBnb7Kz
Coming from someone who references “The Atlantic” and “msn.” Really? Shut up!
I guess you never show us your sources because they are twitter and facebook.
Most likely they are QANON and Alex Jones and OANN.
Says Nate, the Minister of Propaganda, who takes his marching orders from CNN, MSN, and Google.
Well Stephen, when you never have facts on your side, or rebuttals to the facts we raised, you need to blame our mainstream news sources.
They must be corrupt, leftist, part of the conspiracy.
The question is not whether they are right leaning (WSJ) or left-leaning (NYT), but whether their main goal is good journalism, getting the story and getting it right. Both of these do.
But other sources have a political agenda and less emphasis on journalistic ethics, like Epoch Times.
You are corrupt, part of a conspiracy, a propagandist, and also soulless. You can’t help it. You’re a leftist, which implies a mental disorder.
You are still not telling us what your sources are.
I think you know exactly how dodgy they are.
Sources for what? I get it straight from the horse’s mouth. I listen to Rudy Giuliani. I heard Steven Miller today on Lou Dobbs. I listen to people who are in the thick of it.
As usual, no rebuttal of the facts just ad homs.
“Youre a leftist, which implies a mental disorder.”
Sure and 51% of voters must have a mental disorder…
Ah, so you get your information from Trump and his lawyer, and you believe that this is the cast-iron truth.
Thanks for telling us.
Justice Alito moves up the response date on the Pennsylvania emergency application to December 8th.
Yes, it makes it that much harder for Kelly to get the case heard.
SCOTUS will throw the case out if they even allow it to be heard.
If the SCOTUS throws it out, it’ll be because because they are LEFTISTS.
“We should still try to figure out exactly what took place here. And as I said that includes, I think, debates on the House floor — potentially on January 6,” Jordan, a trusted Trump confidant, told CNN.
Jim Jordan has not figured it out yet; Trump lost the election! How stupid is it possible to be? A debate on the House floor is surely not the way to find the facts.
No, the legal election Trump won.
This is a fantasy, as there have been no illegalities demonstrated in any court.
No, I expect Justice Alito will uphold the Constitution. Not sure what the entire court will do. They might not offer a remedy but throw it back to Pennsylvania. I expect them to, at a minimum, strike down the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruling as unconstitutional. They have to answer that constitutional question.
Which part of the constitution, exactly, do you think Alito is supposed to uphold, that could possibly make a difference? The US constitution does not set the manner of elections, each state has the prerogative to do that.
Really? How about Article 2, which says elections are determined by the State legislatures and not their courts. The Pennsylvania Supreme court’s ruling regarding mail-in ballots was unconstitutional.
Barry,
Do you know what plenary power is? The state legislatures have plenary power when it comes to Presidential elections.
Stephen,
DO you know what the case is even about? Seems not.
“In his filing before Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court, Butler County Republican U.S. Rep. Mike Kelly argued that the 2019 law, passed by the states GOP-controlled legislature, which created no-excuse mail voting in the state for the first time was unconstitutional and ‘illegally implemented.'”
You’d better be specific about which case you mean, because the PA Supreme Court threw out one a week ago, because it challenged state law put in place by a Republican-majority PA legislature in 2019.
Which case exactly? I don’t think there is one still running that fits your description.
If you mean this case:
https://tinyurl.com/y3tdfwry
I can’t see how it can possibly work.
The plaintiffs are arguing that Act 77 is unconstitutional – as in Pennsylvania’s constitution, not the constitution of the United States.
Act 77, a change to voting laws, was legislated by a Republican majority legislature more than a year ago.
The reasons it won’t be heard are:
This is a state matter. The US constitution is not infringed. SCOTUS has no place in this.
The time for challenging this law was a year ago, not a year later, and after the results of the 2020 federal election. The Primary elections had also taken place under the auspices of this Act earlier in 2020, and no one challenged the law then.
Decisions about the law as pertaining to the Pennsylvania constitution rest with the PA Supreme Court, not the SCOTUS.
The particulars also fail to make a good case, even if SCOTUS hears it.
But SCOTUS is going to dismiss this case.
Were you thinking of another one?
In the Kelly case tomorrow, he argues that Act 77 bypassed the Pennsylvania constitution regarding the absentee voting requirements.
Let’s suppose Alito agrees that it should be heard before the full court. Will the safe harbor requirement be met?
2 courts, including the PA Supreme Court, have already dismissed the case. The PA Supreme Court dismissed the case finding that Act 77 is not unconstitutional, and that the plaintiff’s arguments are without merit.
SCOTUS will not rule on this, because the Pennsylvania Constitution is not their jurisdiction. SCOTUS is appealed to if the issue is touched on by the US Constitution. Plaintiffs have tried to argue that it is so in the most meagre way possible. It will not impress SCOTUS even if they do agree to hear the case, which is very, very unlikely.
The safe harbour requirement has already been met. SCOTUS would have to rule that the PA certification which has already happened is invalid, or to suspend the certification pending the poutcome of deliberations, which would then put PA electoral votes in jeapordy. It could be then that PA’s electoral college votes do not get included at all.
I cannot believe that SCOTUS would interfere in the PA election in this way, when it is out of their jurisdiction, when the PA Supreme Court has already ruled, and they would be disenfranchising millions of voters, Republican and Democrat alike.
I think Alito has brought the date forward so that when SCOTUS rejects, it is a clear rejection, not because time ran out. Bringing the data forward is a responsible decision.
Found the best election lawsuit tracker.
https://interactives.ap.org/embeds/LW8CB/9/
It’s nearly comprehensive.
There are about 50 lawsuits so far, and this tracker covers 45 of them.
35 cases have been dismissed, denied or withdrawn.
2 cases have been successful, both in Pennsylvania:
One case to get poll watchers nearer to ballot tables succeded, but this was later overturned by a higher court.
One case succeded in getting a 3-day extension for certifying mail in ballots overturned. As these ballots had been set aside pending a ruling on the challenge, they were never included in the state’s tally, and have no impact on the outcome.
Most of the lawsuits have been in left-leaning states. We’ll see what Justice Alito says tomorrow. Hopefully, he’ll uphold the Constitution.
Let’s not kid ourselves. The lawsuits are in the relatively close swing states, where Trump’s campaign thinks there is a chance of turning the vote.
It’s not about election integrity, or they would be going to other states (that gthey won) that had similar issues.
It’s all about flipping the election through litigation.
I doubt SCOTUS will hear the PA case, and even if it did, it would make no difference to the outconme of the election. 3 states need to be flipped. It’s not going to happen.
No, all of the election apparatus, officials, etc., and executive branches of almost all of those states are run by Democrats. Georgia is probably the only exception.
But why isn’t the Trump campaign following through in other states which had late-coming mail in ballots and were also in Democrat areas?
Plenty of areas have the same configuration, but Trump is not going after those.
And the reason is because the purpose is not to weed out irregularities wherever they believe they occurred, but to flip the election where they think it is possible to do so.
Arizona has a Republican majority house, a Republican majority Senate and a Republican governor.
Same with Georgia.
Pennsylvania has a Republican majority Senate and House, and a Democratic governor.
Wisonsin has a Republican majority in the Senate and House, and a Democratic governor
Michigan has a majority Republican Senate and House and a Dem governor.
Only Nevada is Dem for the Senate, House and governor, though the secretary of state is Republican
All these states legislatures determined how voting would be done in 2020.
I don’t know. I’m not part of the legal team. What’s your point? Because he isn’t fighting it in every state, then that somehow invalidates the argument in Pennsylvania? You’re not logical.
No, that’s not my point.
My point is that this is not about election integrity, it’s about flipping states.
If it was purely about upholding election intewgrity, these lawsuits would be submitted in every state where the same or similar issues that these lawsuits are arguing have occurred. The Trump campaign certainly has the funds to do so. But they are only doing so in states where it could possibly change the outcome of the election (in their wildest dreams…).
I make this point in response to the outright claims from the Trump campaign that this is only about election integrity, and because of the same notion being promulgated or implied by Trump followers.
Tired of po-faced Trump supporters making like this is about something more honourable than trying to change the outcome of the election.
U.S. DEATHS, PEARL HARBOR, 7 DEC 1941: 2,403
U.S. DEATHS, COVID, 1 DEC 2020: 2,473
U.S. DEATHS, COVID, 2 DEC 2020: 2,733
U.S. DEATHS, COVID, 3 DEC 2020: 2,706
U.S. DEATHS, COVID, 4 DEC 2020: 2,563
U.S. DEATHS, COVID, 5 DEC 2020: 2,445
Stop the steal.
The Eagles were ahead and then these big point dumps came in for the Packers. Final: Eagles 16 Packers 30.
STOP THE STEAL!!!
Ha!
……VD Hanson
Another of my sources.
Never heard of the guy. Googled his thoughts on Trump post election. This was written 2 weeks ago.
“What matters now are the interests of the country first and Trumps constituents second. So Trump has a number of pathways.
One is to keep addressing legitimate reports of voter irregularities. He can continue to ask the courts to set aside any illegal votes that do not conform to state voting laws. His supporters demand and deserve no less than the investigation of all charges of serial voting impropriety.
But within days, Trump will have to prove that any such crimes and lapses warped state counts enough to have wrongly elected Joe Biden president. Trump realistically has perhaps a week or so left to make his case or concede….
But Trumps other alternative is bleaker. Currently, Trump-affiliated lawyers claim they can prove their bombshell allegations of historic voting fraud by leftists and foreign interests. They further claim that Trump was robbed not of a close election but of a veritable landslide, constituting the greatest scandal in U.S. history.
But so far none of these advocates have produced the requisite whistleblowers, computer data or forensic evidence to prove their astounding charges. If they do not produce it in a few days, and if Trump pivots to put his fate in their hands, then the pilloried Republicans may well lose the Senate races in Georgia. And with that historic setback, he would endanger his legacy, his influence and perhaps a crack at a second presidential term.”
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/11/trump-faces-a-critical-choice-about-his-political-future/
In 2016, 6.5% of Georgia’s mail-in ballots were disqualified. In 2020, 0.5%…..hmmmmm.
Spreading fake news again?
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-georgia-rejected-ballots-fo-idUSKBN2832CM
Your guy lost the popular votes, he will loose the electoral votes, he is loosing in court! Now he and his supporters are resorting to blackmailing republican public officials and threatening others with fire arms! Antidemocratic scum!
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/michigan-protest-jocelyn-benson-secretary-of-state/
Seriously Stephen, where is your skepticism of your sources?
Trump has now asked the Georgia governor, Michigan legislators and the Pennsylvania house speaker to overturn the election results for their states.
He has asked them to discard the election results and give him the win.
If it was anybody else, the whole of America would be screaming for his (political) head for commiting a crime against the people. For abusing his office in the most venal manner – to pressure people to ignore democracy so that he can keep power.
But because it’s Trump, his followers just don’t care, and everyone else is punch-drunk from all the times he has shown complete and utter disregard for protocol, decency and the law.
Very true.
I suspect most people assume its going to fizzle.
The Eagles were ahead and then these big point dumps came in for the Packers. Final: Eagles 16 Packers 30.
The league must overturn the game’s result, discard the game and give the Eagles the win.
STOP THE STEAL!!!
SCOTUS has tossed the Kelly case.
—-The court acted quickly, just after the final brief in the court was filed, suggesting that the justices wanted to send a decisive message…
—-“It is beyond cavil that petitioners failed to act with due diligence” in presenting the case, the court held noting that they filed the suit more than one year after the enactment of the law at issue….
—-Pennsylvania officials called the petition “fundamentally frivolous.”
“No court has ever issued an order nullifying a governor’s certification of presidential election results,” argued J. Bart Delone, the state’s chief deputy attorney general.
“The loss of public trust in our constitutional order resulting in this kind of judicial power would be incalculable,” he said.
https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/biden-trump-us-election-news-12-08-20/index.html
Have to say it’s disappointing that the court’s order is grammatically incorrect. ‘Cavil’ is not an adjective.
It does make you wonder what Alito was thinking. It appeared to be a waste of time. I don’t expect anything to come of the Texas, Louisiana, Florida lawsuit either.
This is the only release the court made about the case.
I don’t know where you got the rest of that crap.
I suspect Kavanaugh or Gorsuch sided with the four leftists. Had to.
Only 3 on the current Supreme Court were appointed by Democrats.
None of the justices dissented from the ruling.
My apologies, the quote I gave was from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. The article was unclear, on re-reading.
Stephen,
Regarding your Article II argument upthread, here’s what Republican lawmakers in Pennsylvania said to Trump.
“The Republicans debunked the Trump campaign legal team’s argument claiming lawmakers can appoint their own electors under Article II of the U.S. Constitution, noting that while the Constitution says states appoint electors “in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct,” they’ve already done that by enshrining in the Pennsylvania Election Code that electors are appointed by the popular vote.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/12/03/pennsylvania-gop-lawmakers-make-clear-they-wont-overturn-the-election-as-trump-wants/?sh=506522a22b39
Legislatures have appointed their own slates of electors in the past. The Constitution trumps an act passed by congress.
I don’t think you understand, though it is stated very clearly above.
The US Constitution leaves it to the states to determine how they will appoint electors. From Article II:
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress
The constitution of Pennsylvania (and pretty much every state in the US) mandates that the electors are chosen by the will of the poeple – whichever candidate has the most votes.
These laws were determined by the legislatures.
The US Constitution cannot overrule these laws, as the constitution clearly leaves these powers to the states’ legislatures.
The US Congress did not pass Act 77. The legislature of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania legislature did.
The Constitution clearly states the legislatures have plenary power in appointing the electors, period.
And, I wasn’t talking about ACT 77.
I was talking about the Electoral Count Act of 1877.
I don’t know what you are trying to argue. The PA legislature has exercised the power given to it in Article II of the US constitution, by drawing up laws that commit it to appointing electors that are decided by the will of the people.
Nothing about the US Constitution can overrule PA state law and constitution, made by the PA state legislature, on how electors shall be appointed.
“I was talking about the Electoral Count Act of 1877.”
I’ve asked you before to be specific.
This Act has no bearing on PA power to determine its own method of choosing electors.
If you are trying to make some other point, you need to be clearer. I can’t read your mind.
Looks like the Supreme Court of the Unites States is leftist.
Really no other explanation..
Well, I know you and Nate are, and four of the court members are. Also, there are a couple of wishy-washy members.
6 out of 9 Justices, including the Chief Justice, are Republican appointees.
How hard to the right must you be, Stephen, to believe a 66% majority Republican Supreme Court is leftist?
Roberts has shifted left. Bush disappointed in many ways. First, he wanted to appoint Harriet Myers. Then he fell back to Roberts. Roberts’ opinion in the Obamacare case was a colossal blunder and permanently cemented his label as a nincompoop and judicial lightweight with distorted reasoning. He certainly isn’t an originalist.
So all the courts around the country that have dismissed or denied the Trump campaign election cases have crap judges presiding, and now the Supreme Court, too.
Do you hear yourself?
The simpler truth is that the legal challenges were devoid of credible evidence and argument and they were dismissed on their merits, or rather lack thereof.
Or maybe, just maybe, the judges are loyal to the law and the Constitution, rather than Trump.
The law prevailed.
Stephen, if you think any judge owes some debt of loyalty to any president of the USA, you don’t deserve to be American. Separation of pwers is a bedrock of your constitution, and what you appear to be suggesting is that judges fall in with Trump regardless of the law.
You’ll need to point out where I stated that the court needs to support Trump just because. Why don’t you stop starting with a false premise? Also, a true hero is dead, General Chuck Yeager. He was a combat veteran and WWII ace pilot. He was also a member of the NRA.
By the way, he wasn’t shot down or taken prisoner.
He was shot down over occupied France.
I wonder why he never endorsed Trump?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chuck-yeager-donald-trump-endorsement/
You’ve implied the argument of loyatly to Trump, which is why I started my comment with “if.” This is how you implied it:
“I suspect Kavanaugh or Gorsuch sided with the four leftists.”
“there are a couple of wishy-washy members.”
You aren’t arguing a point of law here, you are talking about “sides, and members being “wishy washy.” As you’ve said that you think Trump is a man’s man, seemd to me like you werer pitting the wishy washy ones against Trump.
Alito did the right thing by giving at least a little time for the court to make a ruling, so that no one could complain that SCOTUS let time run out. My guess is he wanted to give SCOTUS the opportunity to be emphatic about dismissal, so there could be no doubt among Americans.
Looks like it was unanimous – no dissenting opinions.
They should have taken up the case on Constitutional grounds. They should have at least heard the argument. Article 2 demands that the legislatures adhere to the Constitution and tacitly to their state Constitutions, which Pennsylvania didn’t. I would have loved to have heard Cruz’s argument. Five of the justices had to dissent from hearing the argument. We know the three died in the wool leftists dissented. Roberts hates Trump and is moving left; that’s four. So the other was probably Kavanaugh, I suspect, but we will probably never know. You know Alito and Thomas probably wanted to hear the argument and probably Barrett. Between Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, Roberts seems to be able to influence Kavanaugh the easiest.
You’re funny. You talk about arguing a point of law, but the leftists on the court never stray, never break rank, never side with the original intent, presuppose international law, always rule with the Democrats, always speak out against Republicans, are always strident and, support leftist causes, are vocal and speak out against their opposition.
Could you please provide credible sources for what you’re claiming, because it looks like made-up info.
Firstly, who dissented in the Kelly case today? Source please.
The legislature did adhere to the US Constitution – they have the prerogative to choose the appointees in the manner they see fit. The US constitution goes no further than that. That’s all it says. Therefore the case has no standing at SCOTUS.
“Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress”
The PA Supreme Court is thus the highest court you can appeal to, because the matter is about the PA Constitution, and they’ve already dismissed the case.
http://www.pacourts.us/assets/files/setting-7862/file-10781.pdf?cb=1f7217
I tell you what, you never stray from talking about lefties. Can you make an argument about why the case has merit without your usual schtick?
I’m speculating just like you are. Let’s see your sources. We both have the same source, except you added a bunch of superfluous crap like you always do. The Supreme court declined to hear the case. That’s all we know.
You’re not making any argument, but I am, and providing links. I’m quoting the Constitution of the US and you are not. You’re waffling.
For example, you said that Pennsylvania didn’t adhere to their own constitution, but you do not explain how they failed to do that.
I asked you to verify that there was dissent from the ruling from SCOTUS on the Kelly case – you didn’t answer.
I said you seem to be thinking that Republocan appointe djudges owe Trump loyalty, you asked me to explain why I said that. I did. Then you said nothing. You didn’t say, “I don’t think judges should be loyal to Trump, they should rule according to law.” You just said nothing. So I’m left thinking that you think the judges should stop being wishy-washy, forego their leftist tendencies, and rule in favour of Trump – no legal argument required for this, because you make none.
When I got that quote wrong I admitted it immediately. I’m a straight shooter.
I’m not speculating much. I’m reading the articles behind the argument – I’ve read Act 77. I’ve read the US constitution. I’ve read the plaintiffs’ complaints and the judges rulings in numerous cases. I’ve linked you to those things in this discussion. I’ve quoted these things to you.
But you aren’t doing the same diligence. You’re paroting Trump, Giuliani and Trump’s acolytes as if their word is cast-iron truth. You don’t investigate what they are saying. You don’t check to see if Smartmatic and Dominion share resources, for example. You don’t check to see where Smartmatic machines were used, for example. I do. And I look for primary sources for much of this.
This is the difference between you and me. I check to see if claims have substance. You don’t. You just believe that the Trump claims are true. You said you get your information from Giuliani and other Trump loyalists.
How can you possibly argue that taking what Giuliani says is the gospel truth is a reasonable way to apply a sound rational eye over these issues?
I don’t take Biden’s words as the truth, or Kamela Harris, or Jake Tapper, or Wolf Blitzer. I question and investigate. I go beyond the news media if it’s possible. Often it is.
How many of the Trump campaign plaintiff complaints submitted to court have you read? I’m guessing none. i’m guessing you’re only getting what they say in the ‘hearings’ and press junkets that Giuliani has led, amongst others. That’s why you don’t know that a lot of what they say in these junkets don’t make it into to cvourt filings, where there are consequences for lying.
This information is available to you if you have an internet connection. Source material that comes before the news media and talking heads.
Be skeptical! Don’t believe the pundits. Question them. Stop being a sheeple.
Stephen,
Barry is correct that every explanation you gave of the decision involved the justices politics, rather than considering the possibility that the case, as a matter of law, had no merit.
State legislatures have Constitutional right to say how elections are run in their state. The R led Pa legislature did that in 2019. The case claimed THEY did not have that right.
Many states have had mail in ballots for years.
Apply some neurons to what the case was actually about, and you should understand that it was a loser from the start.
” Also, a true hero is dead, General Chuck Yeager. He was a combat veteran and WWII ace pilot. He was also a member of the NRA.”
I wonder if Stephen would think he was still a true hero if he wasn’t a conservative…
Daniel Inouye? D Senator from Hawaii.
“Assault on Colle Musatello
On April 21, 1945, Lt. Inouye was grievously wounded while leading an assault on a heavily defended ridge near San Terenzo in Liguria, Italy, called the Colle Musatello. The ridge served as a strongpoint of the German fortifications known as the Gothic Line, the last and most unyielding line of German defensive works in Italy. As he led his platoon in a flanking maneuver, three German machine guns opened fire from covered positions 40 yards away, pinning his men to the ground. Inouye stood up to attack and was shot in the stomach. Ignoring his wound, he proceeded to attack and destroy the first machine gun nest with hand grenades and his Thompson submachine gun. When informed of the severity of his wound, he refused treatment and rallied his men for an attack on the second machine gun position, which he successfully destroyed before collapsing from blood loss.[12]
As his squad distracted the third machine gunner, Lt. Inouye crawled toward the final bunker, coming within 10 yards. As he raised himself on his left elbow and cocked his right arm to throw his last hand grenade, a German soldier saw Inouye and fired a 30mm Schiessbecher antipersonnel rifle grenade from inside the bunker, which struck Inouye directly on his right elbow. The high explosive grenade failed to detonate, saving Lt. Inouye from instant death but amputating most of his right arm at the elbow (except for a few tendons and a flap of skin) via blunt force trauma. Despite this gruesome injury, Lt. Inouye was again saved from likely death due to the blunt, low-velocity grenade tearing the nerves in his arm unevenly and incompletely, which involuntarily squeezed the grenade tightly via a reflex arc instead of going limp and dropping it at Inouye’s feet. However, this still left him crippled, in terrible pain, under fire with minimal cover and staring at a live grenade ‘clenched in a fist that suddenly didn’t belong to me anymore.'[13]
Inouye’s horrified soldiers moved to his aid, but he shouted for them to keep back out of fear his severed fist would involuntarily relax and drop the grenade. As the German inside the bunker began hastily reloading his rifle with regular full metal jacket ammunition (replacing the wood-tipped rounds used to propel rifle grenades), Inouye quickly pried the live hand grenade from his useless right hand and transferred it to his left. The German soldier had just finished reloading and was aiming his rifle to finish him off when Lt. Inouye threw his grenade through the narrow firing slit, killing the German. Stumbling to his feet with the remnants of his right arm hanging grotesquely at his side and his Thompson in his off-hand, braced against his hip, Lt. Inouye continued forward, killing at least one more German before suffering his fifth and final wound of the day (in his left leg), which finally halted his one-man assault for good and sent him tumbling unconscious to the bottom of the ridge. He awoke to see the worried men of his platoon hovering over him. His only comment before being carried away was to gruffly order them back to their positions, saying ‘Nobody called off the war!'[14]”
Saving democracy in Europe, now it’s being questioned at home.
Daniel Inouye was a good soldier. You almost can’t help being a leftist growing up in Hawaii. I don’t know many conservatives there except the military.
Good soldier? But not true hero?
I don’t have a problem with you labeling him that if you want. He’s not my hero. Many of these people lose their hero status when they go to Congress and work against the Republic for the rest of their lives.
“He’s not my hero.”
Thank you. And there we have it.
Regardless of what amazing thing someone has done in their life, their value is judged by you with a single variable, their political views.
And right there is why the country is so F*ckd up right now.
I think John Glen was a brave man, but his politics, especially later, were screwy.
John F. Kennedy was pretty brave, but he didn’t govern like a leftist. Not all Democrats are leftists, only most.
I don’t have all day to spend time on this. Here is the Pennsylvania Constitution, Section 14. How did Pennsylvania meet this requirement?
…..(a) The Legislature shall, by general law, provide a manner in which, and the time and place at which, qualified electors who may, on the occurrence of any election, be absent from the State or county of their residence, because their duties, occupation or business require them to be elsewhere or who, on the occurrence of any election, are unable to attend at their proper polling places because of illness or physical disability or who will not attend a polling place because of the observance of a religious holiday or who cannot vote because of Election Day duties, in the case of a county employee, may vote, and for the return and canvass of their votes in the election district in which they respectively reside.
(b) For purposes of this section, “municipality” means a city, borough, incorporated town, township or any similar general purpose unit of government which may be created by the General Assembly.
“In rejecting his suit on Nov. 28, the state Supreme Court said Kelly waited too long to challenge the constitutionality of Act 77, the state law that authorized no-excuses mail-in voting in Pennsylvania. The law passed with bipartisan support.”
The Wolf administration, in response, argued that Kelly’s claims involved issues of “state procedural law” that are outside the jurisdiction of the U.S. Supreme Court. The lawyers said Kelly’s claims that the state Supreme Court violated his federal constitutional rights to due process were groundless. What Kelly’s suit wanted the courts to violate, the lawyers wrote, was the due process rights of Pennsylvania’s voters.
You didn’t answer my question.
In the state there is possibly a dispute between the legislature and the state constitution, which needs to to be resolved by the State Supreme Court.
But in the US Constitution, who has the power over Presidential elections is quite clear, and you have already stated this many times:
“How about Article 2, which says elections are determined by the State legislatures and not their courts.”
…..VD Hanson
“the more premodern the evil among us seems to arise in nihilistic response..VD Hanson”
Hes right that a violent white supremacist militia movement is rising, and it is evil and nihilistic.
The violent white supremacists are on the left. They always have been.
” on the left”
Sure thing Stephen.
Maybe go ask a few of your white supremacist Trumpist friends if they consider themselves to be ‘on the left’ or ‘Leftists’?
Take a poll. Let us know the results.
Trump doesn’t have any white supremacist friends. That is a leftist concoction. Nazis, Marxists, KKK, Democrats, who are the white supremacists, are leftists, always have been.
Weird sort of denial, Stephen. Have your own private definition of Leftist if you want, who cares?
Meanwhile the facts on the ground don’t fit your definition.
Unite the Right rallies will continue to have neo-Nazis and white supremacists as their main participants.
“The Unite the Right rally[4] was a white supremacist[5][6][7][8] rally that took place in Charlottesville, Virginia, from August 11 to 12, 2017.[9][10][11] Protesters included members of the far-right and included self-identified members of the alt-right,[12] neo-Confederates,[13] neo-fascists,[14] white nationalists,[15] neo-Nazis,[16] Klansmen,[17] and various right-wing militias.[18] The marchers chanted racist and antisemitic slogans and carried weapons, Nazi and neo-Nazi symbols, the Valknut, Confederate battle flags, Deus Vult crosses, flags, and other symbols of various past and present anti-Muslim and antisemitic groups.”
“Prominent far-right figures in attendance included National Policy Institute Chairman and white supremacist Richard Spencer,[79] entertainer and internet troll Baked Alaska,[79] former Libertarian Party candidate Augustus Invictus,[80] former Ku Klux Klan Imperial Wizard David Duke,[81] Identity Evropa leader Nathan Damigo,[82},…Eric Striker of The Daily Stormer,[83]”
Former leader of KKK will still be a big Trump supporter.
The SCOTUS was wise not to get involved. I think it was probably a unanimous decision. The question is not whether there is a valid claim, but whether there might be a change in the outcome of the election. They very wisely do not want to be seen as affecting the outcome of an election unless there is a critical issue that must be settled. The 2000 election hurt the reputation of the court.
I think it’s pretty clear the SCOTUS had no standing to rule on what was a purely Pennsylvania law case, and it’s ironic that Republicans tried to get the fed involved in a state matter unwarranted.
Had SCOTUS heard and ruled, I’m saure they would have found the same as the other courts.
What they did was good – gave some time to allow the case to be brought up, so that they could emphatically reject their involvement in an electoral matter, and one outside their jurisdiction.
There are two very simple issues of law. Elections have to be decided by rules in effect before the election. They cannot make up new law after the election like Florida did in 2000. The other is that legislature has to make he laws. The governors cannot just do whatever they want. That is the constitutional issue here.
SCOTUS can’t rule on this. How states conduct there elections is left up to the states. Any matter that goes against that stse’s laws or constitution is a matter for that state’s courts.
Why the blazes are American conservatives suddenly keen to get the fed involved in purely state matters?! It goes against the fundamental principles of the GOP.
Good bye GOP. It was nice knowing you. I wonder what new principles the nominal Republican party will have when they sort their shit out.
“The question is not whether there is a valid claim, but whether there might be a change in the outcome of the election.”
Yes. But also it was not even close to being a valid claim.
I think it would have only gotten interesting for SCOTUS if a state legislature decided to appoint a different set of electors than those chosen by the popular vote.
And wisely, none did.
Of course, you wouldn’t think that, would you? You’re a leftist.
And that is your (non) argument, always.
The US has experienced the worst case of election fraud in its history.
The legal challenges of the Trump campaign have been packed with lies and discredited evidence. A barrage of suits fired upon the courts of law across America, all the way up to the Supreme Court.
The flim-flam man has directed his troops to the summit of his confabulations, and they have willingly gone there to traduce the American political and legal system.
It has been amazing theatre from afar, but the damage is deep. The Republican party has gone feral, and senior members have used incautious rhetoric such as ‘civil war’. The country is bitterly divided.
COVID has exposed many fault lines in the health and economic infrastructure in many countries, as well as each country’s social contract.
Trump has, like a pandemic, exposed the fault lines in the Republican party, which is now hemorrhaging any sense of decency or shame.
If the GOP doesn’t get its shit together in the post-Trump world, I fear for what will happen to the USA.
This is going to be a disaster for the Democrats. People already realize what they have with Biden and his incoming administration. And, people are thinking, WTF did I do? Biden is going to wreck the economy and the country.
Yes, curing the deficit left by Trump will put a damper on the economy for the next fifteen years.
The people aren’t going to blame Trump for this collapse. Oh, I’m sure the left will try, but the blame will go to Biden, Pelosi, and the Democrats.
True, people will not thank those that clean up Trump’s mess.
And when it’s done some new populist will promise you everything for free and you will have a new false prophet to admire.
How on Earth could a rational person blame Democrats for the state of the economy, or the deficit?
The US has had a Republican president and a Republican majority senate for 4 years.
But somehow Biden is going to get the blame for where the US is at economically?
What intellectual alchemy would make anyone think like that? Is it something only American conservatives are capable of?
“People already realize what they have with Biden and his incoming administration.”
Yes, a lot less drama.
“And, people are thinking, WTF did I do?”
Yeah now they will have to get their reality TV entertainment from Kardashians again.
At least you agree now that it was the PEOPLE who decided.
“Biden is going to wreck the economy and the country.”
The economy is already stuck on neutral. Almost 1 million new unemployment claims this week. Job growth stopped. There was no V shaped recovery as promised.
All under Trump’s watch.
But you will try to blame it on the future President.
Biden’s coronavirus plan is novel. Isn’t it? Masks? Check. Vaccination? Check. Open schools? Check. One hundred days? Check. Is Biden a plagiarist? Check.
Seventeen states have joined the Texas lawsuit. I don’t expect this court under Roberts to do anything. Plus, I think some of the justices are afraid to go against the left on Constitutional matters, at least for now. They won’t be afraid in a couple of years.
‘ to do anything.’
Again the facts of the case and its lack of legal merit seem irrelevant to Stephen.
He hopes the Court will just act like Banana Republic courts, and just be loyal to their TEAM.
The completely anti-states-rights aspect of the case, the polar OPPOSITE of conservative principles, seems to not matter to Stephen.
Texas Sen Cornyn must be a Leftist.
“I read just the summary of it, and I frankly struggle to understand the legal theory of it,” Texas Republican Sen. John Cornyn said Wednesday night about the Paxton suit. “Number one, why would a state, even such a great state as Texas, have a say so on how other states administer their elections? We have a diffused and dispersed system and even though we might not like it, they may think it’s unfair … those are decided at the state and local level and not at the national level. So it’s an interesting theory, but I’m not convinced.”
23 states and territories have lined up against the lawsuit.
https://tinyurl.com/y2wr54d5
The Democrats stole this election when they mailed out so many ballots. They always win with a high turnout of casual voters who want free stuff. Once people have ballots and mail them in, it is very difficult to say they cannot be counted even if the law was broken in sending them out. The legal president is important to prove the election was not legal, but it will not change the outcome. Illegal ballot will not be discarded. The SCOTUS will tread very lightly if at all.
It is more than that. These four states and probably more have broken the civil contract that has existed since the end of the Civil War. With all the mass mailing of ballots, there was no election integrity and bred chaos. A President cannot be elected in this manner. The Republic, as we have known it, is done. This is what the left wanted. Their wish will be granted.
Well, I feel quite comfortable standing to the left of a car wreck in a ditch on the right hand side of the road!
I’m sure you do, especially when your car wrecked a long time ago. You welcome the company.
Is it the Great Depression in 2007-08 you are thinking of? Or the Covid-19 misery in 2019? Or may be the collapse that started in 1929/30? Whose car broke down in these instances?
Not to mention the 2003 Iraq war…
“The Democrats stole this election when they mailed out so many ballots. They always win with a high turnout of casual voters who want free stuff.”
The Pa Republican-led legislature voted to expand mail-in voting in Pa, and thus to STEAL THE ELECTION.
Oh wait a minute…
Does that straw-man do a song and dance, or stand there looking stupid?
I keep telling you that having an “R” beside your name means nothing. How many of those Republican Pennsylvania legislators are “never Trumpers?”
In Pennsylvania, for instance, there are 111 “Republicans” and 93 Democrats in the House. There is also a Democrat Governor. There is a slimmer majority in the Senate. It only took a few “never Trumpers” to pass Act 77, but I think almost half the “Republicans” voted for it, which actually violated Pennsylvania’s Constitution. But that’s OK because, hey, there’s a pandemic. Tyranny in the name of security is OK.
Thank you for the clarification! There is no such thing as an R-party any more. It is only a T-party. Many old “R”s had to find a new home. Not surprising that Biden won the election by a land slide of more than 7 mill. votes!
He didn’t.
Yeah, but he did, and all you have left to say after court cases and serious institutues and people on the conservative side of the aisle denying Trump his BS is two word sentences.
Wake up from this malaise, Stephen! Trump is screwing you and America. Don’t be a part of it, man. Don’t stoop so low!
Republican states, Republican legislatures also mailed out ballots. It was the year of COVID. Lots of states made changes to accomodate that, red and blue alike.
These states:
Alabama, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Georgia, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Vermont, West Virginia and Wisconsin.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/states-changed-rules-voting-amid-coronavirus-pandemic/story?id=72309089
We need more Kraken!
“The last of the four lawsuits filed by President Donald Trump’s former lawyer Sidney Powell bit the dust late Wednesday in Wisconsin, where a federal judge noted that voters choose who goes to the White House in the United States.
Powell compared her lawsuits to the “Kraken,” a mythical, octopus-like creature unleashed into popular culture in the film “Clash of the Titans.”
Now 17 states plus Texas are suing four other states seeking to overturn their election results. Since The Founders already took care of this with the 11th Amendment, one wonders why it was even filed. Answer is of course, follow the money. More opportunities to fund raise to cover a looming balloon payment.
The 11th amendment: “The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State.”
The 11th Amendment doesn’t have any application to this case.
Only a seditious traitor would say that. Study civics much?
Soon after ratification of the Constitution one provision of Article III that allowed federal courts to hear disputes between a state and citizens of another state, or citizens or subjects of a foreign state was used by individuals to sue several states in the Supreme Court.
In Chisholm v. Georgia (1793) the Supreme Court ruled, by a four-to-one vote, that Chisholm’s suit against Georgia could proceed in federal court. The Court relied in part on the text of Article III. Several other suits against other states were pending at the time Chisholm was decided.
Alarmed by the Supreme Court’s decision in Chisholm, Senator Caleb Strong, of Massachusetts, quickly proposed an amendment that ultimately became the Eleventh Amendment. Following its ratification, pending suits against states were generally dismissed.
Frickin 14th, 15th, 19th, 24th and 26th Amendments!
Frickin Voting Rights Act!
All helping someone steal the election.
The 14th and 15th Amendments were passed to allow former black slaves the right to vote. Of course, leftists have absconded those two amendments over the years, claiming it means anything and everything to anyone who has a complaint. Now six more states have requested to join the Texas lawsuit and are among the eighteen states who have filed amicus briefs. I still think there isn’t enough temerity in the court for this to have any success.
I told you the civil contract has been broken. This is why the lawsuit.
When you live in a confirming news bubble, you miss any news that is critical.
Did you somehow miss the 10,000 lies to the public?
Did you somehow miss the children in cages at the border separated from their parents?
Did you somehow miss him fiddling for two months while the pandemic took hold?
Did you somehow miss his love affairs with Kim Jong Un and Putin?
Did you somehow miss his impeachment?
Should have been down below
Do even you leftists think that Biden is a complete nincompoop after the last couple of weeks? Do you think Trump was more of an idiot? I just don’t see how. I know his tweets irritated you, and most of you claimed they affirmed his stupidity, but I’m having a hard time believing anyone with half a brain can think that. Almost all of Trump’s decisions were sound and well thought out. He has had success in all areas of executive decision making. Biden’s a boob already.
‘Almost all of Trump’s decisions were sound and well thought out.’
Yes, the Dear Leader is just about infallible…Lou Dobbs said.
Lou Dobbs is a wise man. You should listen to him. But you can’t; you’re mentally disturbed.
The main thing he did well was dividing the country.
Presidents are elected by ~ half plus epsilon of the voters but serve all the people.
Trump was the first President who made it abundantly clear that he was there to serve his core supporters.
Blue states or cities with minority populations could expect to be insulted, treated as second class citizens, or suffer his wrath. He tried, and often threatened to remove federal benefits from those not heaping praise on him, like a King.
The most divisive president ever.
The media is the enemy of the people. They chose not to report on the corrupt Biden family before the election. Would Trump ever have gotten that kind of consideration? Hell no!
Wow, how is it that i know about the Hunter Biden allegations despite not going on facebook?
Because the allegations were published by the media, you jackass.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/23/politics/republican-report-bidens-burisma-ron-johnson/index.html
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-joe-scandal-election-corruption-jonathan-turley
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-biden-report-burisma-ukraine-senate-republican-released/
Stop listenting to jackass pundits spinning BS.
If it had been Don Jr. you would have found a thousand links about him, just from CNN.
I believe Joe Biden got one question about Hunter and Burisma. His response was, “come on, man.” Or was it “dog faced pony soldier?”
I provide clear evidence the MSM published artricles on Hunter Biden allegations after you said there were none, and your answer is, “Well look over here!”
You are military, right? Were you a chump in uniform, or did that happen after you left the military?
“The media is the enemy of the people.”
Do you understand what the purpose of the media even is, Stephen?
Its purpose is not to be a megaphone or a cheerleader for the government. That is its purpose in N. Korea or China or Russia.
Its purpose is to hold the government and others accountable. To tell us whether the government is telling us the truth.
Its been called the 4th branch of govt.
When Trump labels it the ‘enemy of the people’, he is trying to avoid and evade being held accountable, to you.
Hunter Biden visited 29 countries while his daddy was Vice President. But, hey, Joe’s your man.
He probably thought the American people would never be stupid enough to elect him as President. (They weren’t)
Did the US elect Hunter Biden?
Surely a president will appoint his own family to top positions.
Of course. I forgot that’s how you do things in the US.
I don’t have a problem with uncorrupted family members being part of an Administration.
It’s very good if you’re paranoid.
Wikipedia:
Paranoia is an instinct or thought process which is believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of delusion and irrationality. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself.
Making false accusations and the general distrust of other people also frequently accompany paranoia. For example, a paranoid person might believe an incident was intentional when most people would view it as an accident or coincidence.
Stephen, you’ve just defended nepotism.
That is how low conservatives have sunk.
You do not deserve to call yourself American. You defile everything that makes that country great.
“uncorrupted family members”
Well let’s see, Hunter Biden is accused of benefiting from his father’s name and position, while seeking business opportunities around the world.
Hmmm sounds familiar.
And in the case of Trump family, the President remains part of all of these businesses and stands to profit from them.
You’re comparing apples to oranges, and because you’re a disturbed leftist, you don’t see the incongruency in your argument. For instance, Hunter Biden was paid $1.5B (yes, that’s billion with a B) by the Chinese. Not because he is a financial whiz, but so he could influence his father’s and Obama’s decisions. And, it doesn’t have to be an active influence. Joe only had to be aware of the payments so that when he sat in on meetings in the Whitehouse or the Senate and China’s name came up; he always had a kind word to say. The Trump kids and Trump, on the other hand, had business before they got into politics, and if anything, this public service has caused their finances to shrink. There is no evidence of any foreign country paying the Trump kids to influence their father. Don Jr and Ivanka have way more on the ball and are much more upstanding citizens than Hunter ever has been.
Oh puleeez Stephen so gullible..
“Reports at the time indicated Bohai Harvest RST sought to raise $1.5 billion not that the Bidens pocketed $1.5 billion from the deal, as Trump and Giuliani suggested.”
“A lawyer for Hunter Biden, George Mesires, told ABC News the fund has a registered capital of $4.2 million, and Hunter Biden holds a 10% stake, meaning his committed capital is worth $420,000. It was not immediately clear whether he invested that money himself or whether his 10% stake serves as compensation for his directorship.”
And Ivankas easy breezy chinese patent approvals?? While working in the white house!
Many other things ..
This Texas against 4 states is a real humdinger. Legal experts across the country are saying its the most insane suit yet offered, and looking it – well, it is.
Just have a look:
https://tinyurl.com/yxlv39xo
For an example of the wretchedness of this submission, this is from the very beginning of the Statement:
“…the election nationwide saw a massive increase in fraud-prone voting by mail. See BUILDING CONFIDENCE IN U.S. ELECTIONS: REPORT OF THE COMMISSION ON FEDERAL ELECTION REFORM, at 46 (Sept. 2005)
absentee ballots are “the largest source of potential voter
fraud”). Combined with that increase…”
So we begin with an assertion of a massive nationwide increase in fraud-phone voting by mail in the 2020 federal election, and the evidence is…. wait for it…. a report from 2005 about absentee ballots being the largest source of “POTENTIAL” voter fraud.
Never mind that not knowing the difference between real and theoretical evidence would fail a first year law student, if this fraud is nationwide, then this whole lawsuit should be directed nationwide, or at least every state that was susceptible to the actual – I beg your pardon, POTENTIAL – massive voter fraud.
But it’s not directed at all the states impacted nationwide, only those that could turn the election.
From the get-go the palintiff has made it plain that their plea to the Supreme Court is not about a principle of law that shoukd apply equally, but about politics (or, rather, political optics).
Wanna know something hilarious? Undert the same rubric challenging other states that changed their election practises fy ‘fiat’, Texas should also come under the hammer.
Because the Republican Texas governor made a proclamation to extend the dates for early and mail in ballots.
https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-extends-early-voting-period-for-november-3rd-election
I mean, this is as rich as it gets.
The hypocrisy and cynicism run deep here.
There follows a list of all the “I believe this happened” testimony which has all been dismissed in courts across the country, but Texas GA Paxton doesn’t care. I would say that these dumb-ass people think that if they keep throwing the same stale BS at the courts, eventually some judge somewhere will be stupid or corrupt enough to accept it. But this is the Supreme Court of the land. They are not going to even look at this ‘evidence’.
I would say that, but this suit is clearly not genuine. The egregious insanity contunues, but you’ll have to read it for yourself. No, this is not about pursuing jjustice or even turning the election.
This is a political stunt. It has to be. No Attorney General could submit this with a straight face as an actual court case.
An AG would know that one state (or a group) has no standing to challenge the way other states run their elections.
Not to mention that yet again we see a Republican (now joined by many other Republicans who have enthusiastically signed on to the farce) obliterate the bedrock of conservative party values by trying to enlist a federal body to tell states what to do.
The corruption of the Republican party is complete.
They’ve abandoned their deepest principles with a frivolous case brought to the high court.
The actions undertaken since election day – refusing to recognize the president elect, undermining democracy, abusing the legal system with baseless lawsuits, and joining with the party leader to call on judges and law makers to overturn the will of the people – this is not the party of sobriety and tradition.
The Republicans have become radicalised. They are no longer conservative.
By the way, these are the states that changed their mail ballot laws just prior to the 2020 election.
Alabama, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Georgia, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Vermont, West Virginia and Wisconsin.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/states-changed-rules-voting-amid-coronavirus-pandemic/story?id=72309089
Many of those are Republican states.
But somehow they didn’t make it onto Texas’ list of states to be challenged at the Supreme Court.
If you argue that all states violated the Constitution, then the Supreme Court should reject the entire election, and it should go to the House. Is that your argument?
In Alabama, for instance, and this is the only one I’ve looked, a Federal judge unconstitutionally intervened. Yup, the entire election is unconstitutional. It should go to the House.
It’s not my argument. It’s the argument made by Texas.
And they didn’t apply that argument equally to all the states.
The Texas governor announced changes to the mail in ballots – by FIAT.
my argument is that that the Texas case is one-eyed, frivolous and opportunistic, because it does not apply the same standard to any state that made similar changes by fiat WHERE TRUMP WON!
Do you not understoand the depravity of a case that only challenges opponent states on rubric that would also challenge aligned states?
I don’t think you get it. That is the moral vacuum of a partisan.
And, you’re supporting their correct argument. No President should be elected in this manner. The Constitution has a remedy, and it is, well, constitutional.
You’re full of crap, or your sources are full of crap. Texas did not change their mail-in ballot rules. They used the same rules they’ve had, and that’s in Texas law. STOP MAKING UP SHIT!
Do you know what ‘links’ are? If you click on them, they will take you to a web page. Click on this one that I provided in the post above when I said the Texas governor had proclaimed a change to mail in ballots by ‘fiat.’
https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-extends-early-voting-period-for-november-3rd-election
That’s from the Texas government website. I’ll quote it for you:
“Governor Greg Abbott today issued a Proclamation extending the early voting period for the November 3rd Election by nearly a week. Under this proclamation, early voting by personal appearance will begin on Tuesday, October 13, 2020, and continue through Friday, October 30, 2020. The proclamation also expands the period in which marked mail-in ballots may be delivered in person to the early voting clerk’s office, allowing such delivery prior to as well as on Election Day.”
Can you understand that?
This is exactly the ‘fiat’ changes to election practises that the Texas case is claiming is unconstitutional.
The election in Texas should be nullified, according to the case Texas is bringing to SCOTUS.
I’m not saying that this case has merit – quite the opposite.
I’m saying that their challenge is without principle, because it does not include all states where these supposed transgressions occurred.
I’m saying they are hypocrits.
But they are lower than that, because I don’t think they even believe they have a genuine shot. This is all about making Trump voters happy.
It’s disgusting, abusing the legal system for political ends.
The texas Attny General is looking for a Trump pardon. He is one of the more corrupt politicians out there, so he needs one.
The signer-oners are just Trump sycophants.
Yes, the left plans on prosecuting all Trump supporters when they obtain power. Who’s Robespierre? Is he Ilhan or AOC?
Dont have to. They are doing it in Texas.
You have this weird idea that people on your team never do anything wrong…
All states have certified their elections. All significant lawsuits about election fraud rejected. Only remaining is for you to come out of your fake news bubble.
All states have certified their unconstitutional elections.
Are you implying a banana republic?
Where’re you from, Shansly?
Jeb Bush and Frank Luntz, of all Republicans, have disavowed the Texas case.
https://tinyurl.com/y5kbp7kw
Bush: “This is crazy. it will be killed on arrival. Why are smart people advancing this notion? Let it go. The election is over.”
Luntz: “Texas could not even get its Solicitor General the man who argues on behalf of the state before the Supreme Court to sign onto the lawsuit”
If you don’t know how deep these guyts are in the Repub party….
But then, their affiliation goes back decades. So I suppose the new, radicalised Republican party will disown them.
The GOP consists of Republicans, Republicans post Fox News, and ReTrumpicans.
Jeb Bush? LOL!
These Representatives supporting the Texas lawsuit are skating on thin ice.
Amendment XIV
Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Is secession insurrection?
secession?
My guy Abraham Lincoln and the Union soldiers already gave you the answer.
What does secession have to do with the Texas lawsuit?
Where are you from? Nate? Barry? Svante? Slansly? Why are you outsiders so interested in our elections?
Because I am worried that the rapid decline in USA’s standing, respect and leadership in the world, which we have experienced during the last four years, will continue for another period. This will only strengthen the influence of Xi Jinping, Putin, Erdogan and like-minded authoritarian leaders.
Then why has Trump’s State Department made never before heard of progress in the Middle East? Why the rapid decline of ISIS and terrorism in general in the last four years? Why the elimination of Al Qaeda in the last four years? Why so many Trump fans all over the world? Go to Youtube and search Trump fans in Australia or Trump supporters in Canada, or Trump supporters in Great Brittain? They are everywhere.
“Why so many Trump fans all over the world?”
Well, you are clearly misinformed. US popularity in the world is at historical lows and declining rapidly under Trump. https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/09/15/us-image-plummets-internationally-as-most-say-country-has-handled-coronavirus-badly/
Why so many Trump fans all over the world?
America has always been the envy of the world and faced many enemies from outside her borders, seldom such a threat from within.
https://ibb.co/Wx0kXfS
Fortunately SCOTUS has kept their common sense.
The US has done a lot of good for the free world, and it’s sad to see it abdicating from it’s leadership role.
Australia.
The US has the most powerful military on Earth. It has the largest economy. It’s reach across the globe, militarily, economically and culturally (with its movie industry, for example) has made it the world’s sole hegemony. If the globe were a social media platform, the US would be the most powerful ‘influencer’ by a thousand petabytes.
Decisions in Washington affect much of the rest of the world. Of course the rest of the world is interested.
If we keep going the way of Australia and many other socialist nations, there won’t be a global military power. Australia will have to fend for itself. Is that what you want?
What I want is not a moron leading America.
Australia isn’t socialist, you absolute idiot.
Socialism:
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole
Name any Western country where this is the case.
I’m sorry, but you’re a blithering fool.
Australia is 4th on the list of countreies ranked according to economic freedom. The US is 17th.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom
This list, by the way, is compiled by a conservative US think tank, The Heritage Foundation, along with the WSJ.
New England, USA
Too bad about SCOTUS. Even Thomas and Alito went out of their way to point out that the case had no merit.
Were your news sources about the case right, Stephen?
You’re such a dimwit. I said that the court would not do anything with this. They are afraid the left is going to pack the court.
You do realize their ruling was twisted and cowardly? But I knew it would be.
What is wrong with you?
Blind Freddy could see that Texas had no standing to bring the suit asking the Supreme Court to tell any state how to conduct its elections.
There’s nothing cowardly about observing the law properly.
Are you actually a conservative? Do you think the fed should tell the states what to do? How to conduct their own elections?
You have been radicalized, laddie. Tou’re no true Republican.
Texas had no standing? So why did Massachusetts have standing in Massachusetts v. EPA? That was the cowardly out for the court.
Because the EPA is a FEDERAL BODY! It is entirely appropriate for the SCOTUS to adjudicate.
But today we had one state of the union trying to get the federal court to tell other states what to do.
If you think this is ok, you are no Republican.
Or if the Republican party now wants to burn its decades old platform of reinforcing states’ independence, then let us know what the new Republican party is all about!
But, the Presidential election wasn’t federal? It only affected Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Georgia?
In the EPA case, we didn’t have one state trying to get the court to tell other states what they must do?
So you want Washington to tell all the states how they should run their elections – in contraventikon of the Constitution.
I’ll say it again, laddie, you’re no true Republican.
The EPA case didn’t single out any state or states, it singled out the EPA, a federal body, and the decision to get the EPA to regulate GHGs as a pollutant singled out no state.
The Clean Air Act is federally mandated because one state’s air pollutants can pollute another state’s air. This is an entirely appropriate use of federal law (and of SCOTUS). Mass v EPA is in that mold.
Once again you assign political motives to justices.
As if you know what’s in their minds.
The case starkly had no merit. There is no defending it.
Alito and Thomas opined that SCOTUS should hear the case, but there is little doubt that they thought it had no merit.
If the report is correct that the vote went 7 – 2, this means that all 3 of Trump’s Supreme Court appointees voted against hearing the case.
They are cowards. I told you they had no temerity.
Yes, you told us what some other partisan fool put in your head.
T
“They are cowards”
Stephen, the court looked at the case, saw that it had no constutional merit, and tossed it.
What would you have them do? Ignore the law and do Trumps bidding?
Unless your guy wins, they are cowards?
Yes Stephen that is an INTERNAL Pa state dispute, that should have been raised a year ago, but wasnt. Now after the vote, it is too late
But federally, constitutionally only the Legislature has the power, as YOU have reiterated several times.
Sorry, you cant have it both ways.
Stephen’s team lost the Super Bowl. Several calls were video reviewed by the refs, and went against his team.
Stephen insists the refs ‘were cowards’.
No Stephen, they just made the calls as they saw them on the tape.
Your team lost. Oh well. Stop being such a poor sport.
Get over it, and get on with your life.
For you, Stephen:
“[Texas] Governor Greg Abbott today issued a Proclamation extending the early voting period for the November 3rd Election by nearly a week. Under this proclamation, early voting by personal appearance will begin on Tuesday, October 13, 2020, and continue through Friday, October 30, 2020. The proclamation also expands the period in which marked mail-in ballots may be delivered in person to the early voting clerk’s office, allowing such delivery prior to as well as on Election Day.”
https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-extends-early-voting-period-for-november-3rd-election
Posted on the Texas government website on July 27
THIS is exactly what the Texas case is arguing is unconstitutional. But it seems they have exempted their own state from the challenge – as well as other red states that made electoral changes without legislating them.
Apparently their constitutional argument only applies to states that could change the outcome of the election.
The hypocrisy is stunning, the cynicism is putrid.
You’re a military guy, Stephen. You should know what principle means. And you should know that this is nowhere to be found in this embarrassing ‘case’.
The Republicans joing this useless suit have lost all constitutional fidelity. It’s a travesty.
One of the things I’ve always admired about the US military is that their primary allegience is to the constitution. These Republicans aren’t worthy to lick the boot of an American soldier.
You do realize that did not change any election rules in Texas? Changing the dates for early voting is within the Governor’s purview in Texas and within state law.
You understand that Pennsylvania’s Constitution had specific requirements for an absentee ballot. Act 77 changed those requirements. That requirement was in Section 14 of Pennsylvania’s Constitution. They did not go through the required Constitutional amendment process to change that section. They skirted the law. Governor Abbott did not do that in Texas. Also, if Pennsylvania’s legislature had changed the mail-in ballot date, that would have been OK. It was not OK for the judge to do it.
The challenge that Act 77 was unconstitutional failed the first court, then in the PA Supreme Court, where the decision to dismiss was unanimous.
It is a curious thing that some of the plaintiffs bringing the complaint forward, including congressman Mike Kelly, had themselves been elected under the provisions of Act 77, but did not see fit to complain when they won.
One of the reasons the case was thrown out was that it was patently opportunistic. That is, it was unprincipled.
Republicans are specializing in unprincipled behaviour at the moment.
Act 77 is only unconstitutional with regards to the Presidential election. It does not affect Mike Kelly’s election.
Stop the BS, please.
Mike Kelly was elected on Nov 3 under the same Act 77 as the presidential election. His name is on the same ballot as Biden’s and Trump’s.
https://tinyurl.com/y4xn9j7q
What the failed suit was alleging would affect every candidate in the 2020 general election.
In this action, the Trump Campaign and the Individual Plaintiffs (collectively, the “Plaintiffs”) seek to discard millions of votes legally cast by Pennsylvanians from all corners from Greene County to Pike County, and everywhere in between. In other words, Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters…
Granting Plaintiffs’ requested relief would necessarily require invalidating the ballots of every person who voted in Pennsylvania
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057.202.0_1.pdf
It would also affect every candidate in the primary election earlier in the year, as that also occurred under the provisions of Act 77, but somehow they did not want to argue that those results should be tossed as well.
It wouldn’t invalidate the in-person voting.
You act like all those mail-in ballots were from real people. They weren’t. That’s the crux of the problem.
You need to stop the BS and stop the propaganda. We aren’t going to become like Australia. You leftists and your grand utopian vision. You think you have it all figured out. Suppose you can get a climate treaty, and a Green New Deal, and no walls. Oh, wait! You Aussies have stringent immigration rules. You have to have money or a source of income or vital skills to immigrate there. And, isn’t it easy since you’re surrounded by water. You phony.
“You act like all those mail-in ballots were from real people. They weren’t.”
Several election oversight committees and numerous court cases tell us otherwise.
Why do you say this as if it’s true when no one has reliable evidence of it?
I checked the Texas law for mail ballots. It doesn’t give the governor purview to change the dates, but it does stipulate the time limits for mail ballots.
https://tinyurl.com/yy54eckx
Where in the law does it say the Texas governor has the right to change the dates without legislative approval?
“Act 77 is only unconstitutional with regards to the Presidential election. It does not affect Mike Kellys election”
How can that possibly agree with the Constitution, that states that the Legislature chooses the method of appointing electors. They did that with 77.
You are contradicting yourself, Stephen.
The Constitution presupposes that everything is done within the rule of law. Act 77 did not do that. Ask yourself, why didn’t Pennsylvania change their Constitution? Why?
There’s really only one answer.
Youll have to ask the Rs in the statehouse.
There is only one answer that the US Constitution gives, and YOU have answered it: the Legislature decides how to pick electors.
S “The Constitution clearly states the legislatures have plenary power in appointing the electors, period.”
That was only part of the Texas lawsuit. There was no transparency in Pennsylvania. There was a layer of violence and bullying. A judge interfered.
No, that isn’t the correct answer.
I will hand it to you, leftists. You are good at organizing and using the law to abrogate the law. The problem you have here in the US is that many people and states will not live with that. We will not let the leftists be in charge.
It is a simple answer to why the Pennsylvania legislature and Governor didn’t do it by the law. Because they knew they would lose. If they proposed a Constitutional amendment to change absentee rules, they would have been admitting that they had to change the Constitution to change absentee ballotting. They didn’t want to do that. They couldn’t do mail-in ballots for the Constitutional amendment change because it would not have been legal yet, and they would have lost. So they just decided to ignore their Constitution. The mail-in ballots made it easy for the Democrats and “never Trumpers” to cheat. The problem the never Trumpers have is the leftists will never stop cheating now. America knows that. The Republic is over.
You are right. The legislatures do have plenary power. The legislatures can still appoint their own slates of electors. The Senate has to ratify the election.
Stephen, Act 77 isn’t unconsitutional. That’s already been determined in court.
Are you and your friends gearing up for civil war, then? That would demonstrate adherence to the rule of law.
We don’t want to live with the leftists in charge, and they don’t want conservatives in charge. They want big government; we don’t. There will either be secession or a civil war. Within the next few years, the Republicans have to win to keep the Republic together like happened in our first Civil War, or we will split into several states.
This has never been about Trump. He was their boogeyman. It is about utopianism and globalism versus limited government and sovereignty.
This is the same thing as Brexit for the Brits. They don’t want globalists telling them what they must do.
Stephen Paul Anderson says:
“There will either be secession or a civil war.”
This is the ultimate goal for the Russian attempt to saw division. You are at best you are a useful idiot to them.
“limited government and sovereignty.”
Those are noble goals, please find a sensible and reality based advocate, Trump is neither.
Better still, look to a real world working example such as Switzerland.
It will be interesting to see what we morph into. The Republic is over.
― Victor Davis Hanson, The Father of Us All: War and History, Ancient and Modern
You’re going to take power by force?
Seems like Stephen would welcome Trump as a dictator, since he likes his policies. No need for courts and laws. Works for him..until it doesnt.
Doesnt work for most Americans.
This is how the Democrats did it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-Ikeoe_eX8
And, to answer your question, not take power by force, leave by force.
A compelling look at Pennsylvania.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pao0NIYBQ_g
“A compelling look at Pennsylvania.”
Pay-for-view youtuber on a mike doesn’t understand why PA started counting mail votes after in-person. Maybe if he looked at the PA law on that, and then realized that it takes longer to open, verify and count mail-in ballots, and then realized that some counties elected to start counting mail-ins on the evening of election day rather than the morning, as is their right, he wouldn’t be so shocked.
Guy on a mike still blowing the same kind of smoke as we’ve seen for weeks. He’s also suggesting that there was voter fraud committed in many counties across PA. But he has no real evidence, just what he thinks the numbers suggest.
The usual weak-ass ‘evidence.’ Because there is no real evidence of significant voter fraud.
We only need one piece of information to know that there was voter fraud. There was no transparency. They locked out the poll watchers. I know you keep saying that isn’t true, but it is. There are too many people coming forward with scenarios. And, what you’re saying is what a leftist propagandist would say. Every time you guys break the rules and get caught, it is the same refrain, “Oh, it’s a conspiracy!”, “12 Monkeys,” “you’re a conspiracist.” Can’t you come up with a better explanation? That is your leftist schtick. You’re like the Nazis. You go kill a thousand Jews, and then Goebbels gets on the radio and says, “Jewish lies,” “they’re paranoid,” “they’re conspiracists.” Rules for Radicals playbook.
The left has also done a good job threatening the court. They are cowering in the face of adversity. No standing? That is such an idiotic ruling. Of course, all the other states had standing. It is a federal election. We’re all playing in the same game. It is supposed to be played fairly by all states.
“Cant you come up with a better explanation? That is your leftist schtick. Youre like the Nazis.”
A hundred CLAIMS of fraud put forward by the Kraken, and gullible people think, well with that many claims, their simply MUST be SOME fraud.
“Some might argue that allegations that are as serious-sounding as Trumps assertion of ‘the greatest Election abuse in the history of the United States’ deserve extra latitude, that the volume of complaints is somehow its own evidence of how widespread the problem is.
The opposite is true. The insufficiency of the claims is evidence of bad faith”
This explains it
https://youtu.be/GP_K5czbny4
“There was no transparency. They locked out the poll watchers.”
A very small number of poll watchers were ejected from one place in Philly, leaving more than a hundred conservative poll watchers inside. As the place was at capacity, no further poll watchers were allowed inside.
If you’re not talking about that situation, do what the court cases failed to do and provide some reliable evidence.
Please, just once.
“The left has also done a good job threatening the court.”
Again, for once provide some reliable evidence for your claims.
What were the threats?
When were they made?
Who made them to who?
Provide some damned evidence or STFU.
One other thing that is possible is that after the economy collapses under Biden, and the evidence of fraud in the election emerges, that Biden and Harris are both thrown out of the office and by then, we might have a Republican Speaker of the House, and they are anointed as President. That is, the American people will rise against the Democrats (all the states) so forcefully because of their fraud that the Republic somehow stays together. In my opinion, that is the only way the Republic stays intact. It is that many Democrat voters and states accept and are repulsed by the fraud too.
Stephen has some strange theories, all to avoid the reality that his guy was the loser. Now for the 57th time.
Meanwhile looks like the R party’s gonna have a secession.
“This is how the Democrats did it.”
This is the same old debunked stuff that has been thrown out of court already. No evidence. Npotice that the paid-for-vie youtuber does not supply a link to the data he is talking about. No way to check, all assertion with charts.
And no evidence that even if there was a spike that it is statistically improbable. Perhaps these ballots came from an urban area fasvourable to Biden. The ratio on the chart would not be in the least suspicious if that was what happened.
But we don’t know because he is blowing smoke and not giving enough detail.
Same thing we’ve been seeing for weeks.
And you think it’s the cast-iron truth. No skepticism at all.
Nope, you’re mistaken. It hasn’t been debunked. Their answer was, “well, we store ballots underneath tables all the time.” That doesn’t pass the smell test. The problem was she told everyone to go home, and then she pulled out the ballots, and then there was a monstrous spike in Biden ballots at the time when no one was watching. If you were going to cheat during an election, when would you do it? Would you do it in the light of day or when no one was watching? The problem is that during our elections, both parties are supposed to be watching all the time. You can’t send everyone home and then keep processing ballots.
He isn’t giving enough details because the election system has all the details. And, the officials are not allowing examination.
So that data he said he had and didn’t share with us – that is detail he couldn’t get?
You’re swallowing all this stuff based on a bunch of partisan people saying they believe something bad happened. That’s what all those affadavits amount to. When the people who supply the affadavits are questionned in court, we discover that their beliefs are speculative at best.
50 court cases have been dismissed, denied or withdrawn.
The national bodies tasked with checking election security say there was no fraud.
You see a pattern of judicial malfeasance in every court, whereas reality-based people see a political party abusing the legal system with baseless lawsuits in order to overturn an election and/or score political points.
The paucity of these lawsuits isn’t a matter of political inclination, they are demonstrably crap. That is why they have been givewn withering decisions, including by Republican-appointed judges, and why they have often not even made it into the courtroom. They are that bad.
Never in my life have I seen such a desperate case of a large section of society drinking the Kool-Aid.
‘The absence of evidence is evidence of a cover-up.’
Ch 3 of the Conspiracy Theory Handbook
Stephen,
“Why so many Trump fans all over the world?”
Well, you are clearly misinformed. US image in the world is at historical lows and declining rapidly under Trump. https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/09/15/us-image-plummets-internationally-as-most-say-country-has-handled-coronavirus-badly/
“Since Donald Trump took office as president, the image of the United States has suffered across many regions of the globe. As a new 13-nation Pew Research Center survey illustrates, Americas reputation has declined further over the past year among many key allies and partners. In several countries, the share of the public with a favorable view of the U.S. is as low as it has been at any point since the Center began polling on this topic nearly two decades ago. “
Why so many Trump fans all over the world?
America has always been the envy of the world and faced many enemies from outside her borders, seldom such a threat from within.
https://ibb.co/Wx0kXfS
Israelis disagree with you and Pew Research.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn1DS6DfACs
Where are you from, Shansly? I will tell you most Americans, and I don’t care whether the world likes us or not. But many around the world do seem to like Donald Trump.
If you are indeed an American then you are one of those seditious traitors that want to undo this great country of ours for the sake of some tv star’s ego.
If you say you love your country so much that you’ll destroy its democracy to defend it, you don’t love your country at all; you love power.
You don’t have a democracy if one side cheats.
America and its laws, love it or leave it.
Yes, no surprise – Trump is popular in Israel. Netanyahu has been playing him like a fiddle! When Netanyahu says “you are the greatest! Not even second to Lincoln!” – Trump melts like chocolate mousse and gives him everything he wants! No wonder Trump is popular in Israel. But in Europe more people have confidence in Vladimir Putin than in Donald Trump! That tells a lot….
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/01/PG_2020.01.08_US-Image_0-06.png?resize=420,407
You ask where I come from – and I will give you some clues. If you were a national of my country the chance of you having been Covid-19 infected is only 1/7 relative to where you live. Correspondingly, to date the chance of Covid death has been only 1/13 relative to your country and the death rate for Covid-patients is 50% lower here.
All thanks to a responsible government!
The Democrats are going to throw their entire playbook at Georgia. There will be corrupt polls, media propaganda, and the attempt to steal this election. The Republicans must double down their efforts and not allow the Democrats to do this. For one, don’t leave any polling places. Have triple teams and triple shifts of poll watchers—Video everything.
Stephen, it is against the rules to videotape or take photographs of election officials. It is deemed harrassment.
If Republicans want cameras on ballot counts, they should make a serious request that the ballot counting stations install them in-house. Some places did that for the Novembber ballot counts. Perhaps Republicans fired up about it should raise money to pay for it.
If I was a Republican, I would call out Democrats to do the same, and work together to ensure the Georgia election is the most transparent in US history.
The counties may set their own limits on how many poll watchers can be in a place. All parties should abide.
Conservatives and liberals alike should have equal access to the ballot counting process.
No one from any party should be storming polling stations and ballot counts in a disorderly fashion.
The Republican army sent by Trump to watch the November ballot counts broke the rules. They spoke to ballot counters, they stood over them, they videotaped them.
If Republicans want election rules to be followed, they should set an example, not insist that things happen in polling stations on their terms.
Brittain loves Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPyia84ydv0
Apparently not.
https://www.politico.eu/article/not-a-single-uk-constituency-would-vote-for-donald-trump-poll/
Politico? LOL. Why don’t you ask the head of the Labour Party?
The polling data come from a British polling company.
I’ll take any source that is based on real data. Unlike you.
The Republicans are going to have four thousand poll watchers in Georgia. The two Republicans will win running away.
Your leftist utopia is George Orwell’s “1984.”
How do you define “leftist”?
Hey Stephen, would you join me in a petition to have all cameras removed from public areas? I don’t like my privacy being robbed from me, and that is exactly the nightmare scenario “1984” depicted. We’re living it.
The cameras in private areas really bother me. But, I was thinking more about Youtube censoring policy.
The idea of cameras in the streets and in elevators and in foyers and everywhere in public was a distopian nightmare when 1984 first came out.
70 years later, Big Brother watches us in every urban area, inside buildings, while you walk down the street, as you go shopping.
But I don’t think that bothers you. In fact, I bet you think it’s a good idea for everyone to be watched in order to keep us all safer.
I don’t.
Whenever Stephen is proven completely wrong, it must be the corrupt media’s fault.
Its very convenient.
When have I been proven completely wrong? You’re like a pack of hyenas.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2020/11/benfords-law-part-2-inflated-vote-totals-or-just-the-nature-of-precinct-sizes/#comment-570695
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2020/11/benfords-law-part-2-inflated-vote-totals-or-just-the-nature-of-precinct-sizes/#comment-568880
Conservative columnist Ross Douthat:
“When it comes to Donald Trump’s efforts to claim victory in the 2020 presidential election, there are two Republican Parties. One G.O.P. has behaved entirely normally, certifying elections, rejecting frivolous claims and conspiratorial lawsuits, declining to indulge the conceit that state legislatures might substitute their votes for the electoral outcome.
The other G.O.P. is acting like a bunch of saboteurs: insisting that the election was stolen, implying that the normal party’s officials are potentially complicit and championing all manner of outlandish claims and strategies — culminating in the lawsuit led by the attorney general of Texas that sought to have the Supreme Court essentially nullify the election results in the major swing states.
What separates these two parties is not necessarily ideology or partisanship or even loyalty to Donald Trump. (Nobody had Brian Kemp and Bill Barr, both prominent members of the first group, pegged as NeverTrumpers.) It’s all about power and responsibility: The Republicans behaving normally are the ones who have actual political and legal roles in the electoral process and its judicial aftermath, from secretaries of state and governors in states like Georgia and Arizona to Trump’s judicial appointees. The Republicans behaving radically are doing so in the knowledge — or at least the strong assumption — that their behavior is performative, an act of storytelling rather than lawmaking, a posture rather than a political act.”
You moron. No conservative works for the NYT.
The guy’s an idiot. It isn’t about power and responsibility. It is about good versus evil. The left is evil. Everything about the left is evil while promoting themselves in the names of virtue and goodness. The “left” is a group of psychopaths.
Yes, it is about good versus evil. Just listen to what Ted Cruz had to say about Trump. https://youtu.be/fmOaqutvs1U
You guys have never figured Trump out. Don’t listen to what Trump says; see what he does.
You mean he says one thing and does another?
Look, he’s a liar. That’s not even controversial. It’s who he is, and his fans don’t really care whether he tells the truth or not, as long as he does stuff they like.
You don’t care if he makes stuff upo, do you? His personal integrity really isn’t on your radar, is it?
Stephen,
So when Trump says the election was rigged there is no reason to believe him? We should rather believe the local election authorities and the courts and AG Barr who says there was no major fraud?
And when he says he will try to upend the election based on his lies it is just a joke?
Is that what you are telling us, Stephen?
No, he uses hyperbole.
Wow.
Stephen believes Leftists are evil, and just constantly lie about Trump and get him ALL WRONG.
But here we have an astonishing video that kind of summarizes everything that the so-called ‘left wing’ media has been saying about Trump, his Words and Actions in last 4-5 years… but its coming out of Ted Cruz’s mouth, about as far from a Leftist as one can get!
And yet somehow, some way, Good-vs-Evil Stephen is fine with this profound contradiction.
Stephen just wrote: “Don’t listen to what Trump says”.
I couldn’t agree more if you are interested in facts and science, and I had hoped more republicans would listened to Stephen. However, if you are interested in psychology, especially narcissism, I am sure listening to him may be quite rewarding.
No, Stephen, hyperbole is not an accurate description of Trumps activity. Lying and liar is far more precise.
Just listen to these two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmOaqutvs1U&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bkDykGhM8c
So those times he said COVID wasn’t a big deal, that it would be over quickly, that it would be done by April, and then that the US was turning the corner…
That was all hyperbole, was it?
I think to any sane person that all sounded like a sales pitch.
When he said no condidate had ever won Florida and Ohio and lost the presidency…
That was hyperbole, was it?
When he said, “In certain swing states, there were more votes than people who voted, and in big numbers,” when the truth was there were fewer ballots counted than there are registered voters in ALL states….
That was hyperbole?
When he swore he had never called John McCain a “loser,” but is on video doing exactly that…
This is hyperbole, is it?
When he said he gave Jim “Mad Dog” Mattis his nickname…
This is exaggeration?
When he said the Democrat D.C. mayor woulnd’t let D.C. police get involved in the protests in Lafayette Park, even though the Secret Service said the police were there assisting…
This is hyperbole, is it?
When he said that the US had done more COVID tests than every other country combined…
That was hyperbole, was it?
When he said, “We inherited a broken test,” for COVID 19, despite the fact that there has never been a test for this ‘novel’ coronavirus prior to its emergence (obviously)…
Hyperbole? Or just plain bullshit?
March 17 – “I’ve always known this is a real, this is a pandemic. I’ve felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.”
March 18 – “It snuck up on us… a very unforeseen thing.”
Two completely opposite bits of hyperbole within 24 hours?
You can go on and on with this. There are lists.
And yes, there was a butt-tonne of hyperbole as well.
Hyperbole is what salespeople use.
Trump always was a flim-flam man, exaggerating and distorting the truth. And he is also an out and out liar. The truth matters far less to him than success.
And the truth doesn’t matter a bit to his supporters. They only want him to win, whatever the cost.
“It is about good versus evil. The left is evil.”
Yes Stephen, and that is why Santa will only be coming the houses of Republican children…
Stephen` Paul Anderson says:
“You moron. No conservative works for the NYT.”
Wikipedia says:
Ross Gregory Douthat is an American conservative political analyst, blogger, author and New York Times columnist.
He wrote “Grand New Party: How Republicans Can Win the Working Class and Save the American Dream.”
“With specific proposals covering such hot-button topics as immigration, health care, and taxes, Grand New Party shakes up the Right, challenges the Left, and confronts the changing political landscape.”
Stephen actually wrote this:
“We don’t want to live with the leftists in charge, and they dont want conservatives in charge. They want big government; we dont. There will either be secession or a civil war. Within the next few years, the Republicans have to win to keep the Republic together like happened in our first Civil War, or we will split into several states.”
The left would never start a civil war.
The most important question for me right now is how radicalised the right will become. I think they are dangerous.
The left has already started the war. They started it four years ago when Trump won.
You leftists are a bunch of pompous bastards. Do you think using the FISA court to spy on Trump’s campaign was a benign act? Or impeaching? Or stealing an election? All, just benign acts?
“Do you think using the FISA court Do you think using the FISA court to spy on Trump’s campaign was a benign act?”
It was poorly done paper work that deserved and got a slap on the hand from the Inspector General. Notice no one was thrown in jail.
“Or impeaching?”
Did you forget that Bill Clinton was impeached, more or less, for
getting a Blow Job?
IMO what DT did was an abuse of power, and deserved impeachment.
“Or stealing an election?”
No evidence for, as discussed ad-nauseum. All court cases TOSSED. Even most of the 100 R house members are accepting reality.
“All, just benign acts?”
There was an analysis of the top and most-covered news stories on Fox News last week.
That was the week we had two important SCOTUS election decisions.
We had the record pandemic deaths and hospitalizations.
We had the Covid Vaccine approvals.
The lead story just about EVERY HOUR on Fox News last week, with the most time spent on it, was Hunter Biden’s taxes.
R-wing media is all about giving you stories that confirm your beliefs, make you feel better about yourselves, and keep you guys as ANGRY AS POSSIBLE to boost ratings.
And DT is all-in because it helps him raise $$$.
“All, just benign acts?”
Yes. Or totally False.
But Right wing media will amplify them to the point that you want a Civil War.
They dont care, they’ll get more ratings.
Here is how various states across the US changed their election rules for 2020 because of COVID.
This list includes only the states won by Donald Trump.
Alabama: Absentee/mail-in voting eligibility requirements suspended, allowing all voters to cast ballots by mail in the November 3, 2020, general election.
This change was announced by Alabama’s Republican Secretary of State.
Arkansas: Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R) and Secretary of State John Thurston (R) announced that voters in the November 3, 2020, general election would be allowed to cite concerns over COVID-19 as a valid excuse for voting absentee. Hutchinson subsequently issued an executive order formalizing this policy change.
Iowa: Mail-in ballot applications sent automatically to all voters in the November 3, 2020, general election.
This was done by the Republican Secretary of State.
Kentucky: Absentee/mail-in voting eligibility requirements suspended, allowing all voters “concerned with contracting or spreading COVID-19” to cast ballots by mail in the November 3, 2020, general election.
Kentucky’s Democrat governor made this an executive order. Signed off by the Republican secretary of state for Kentucky.
Montana: Counties authorized to send mail-in ballots automatically to all voters in the November 3, 2020, general election.
Democrat governor of Montana issued an executive order for this.
South Carolina: Absentee/mail-in voting eligibility extended to all active registered voters in the November 3, 2020, general election. Prepaid postage provided for all returned ballots in the November 3, 2020, general election.
A temporary law initiated by Republicans and unanimously voted in in a Republican majority legislature. The South Carolina constitution was not amended.
Tennessee: Absentee/mail-in ballot eligibility in the November 3, 2020, general election extended to ‘individuals with a special vulnerability to COVID-19’ and ‘caretakers for individuals with a special vulnerability to COVID-19.’ Policy requiring that first-time voters to vote in person temporarily suspended.
A student challenged state law and his case was upheld by the 6th District Court, a heavily majority Republican-appointed court. The constitution was not amended.
Texas: Early voting period for the November 3, 2020, general election extended by six days to open on October 13, 2020, instead of October 19, 2020, as originally scheduled. Voters required to be notified if their absentee ballots might be rejected due to signature mismatch; officials required to give such voters a ‘meaningful opportunity to cure’ their ballots. Absentee/mail-in return locations limited to one per county.
Republican Texas governor did all this by executive order.
West Virgina: Absentee/mail-in ballot eligibility in the November 3, 2020, general election extended to all voters ‘concerns about their health and safety because of COVID-19.’ Secretary of State Mac Warner (R) also announced the implementation of an online absentee/mail-in ballot request portal for the general election.
The Republican Secretary of State extended elligibility for mail in votes to all West Virginians by announcement. The West Virginian legislature did not vote on it.
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The Trump campaign and other Republicans have argued that making mail in ballots available to any voter opens the door to fraud. They’ve gone to court against states won by Biden on this.
The Trump campaign and other Republicans have gone to court arguing that elections laws can’t be changed by ‘fiat’, or even by the legislature voting on law.
The Texas case argued that changes to election laws can only be done by (state) constitutional amendment.
The states listed above have ‘transgressed’ in these ways.
And yet the Trump campaign and other Republicans are not interested in challenging the electoral results in these states.
Barry,
Let’s suppose all of that is true and accurately reported, which I’m sure it’s not. However, let’s assume it is all true. The problem is the left used the change in rules to cheat. That’s the difference between the left and the right. You didn’t have a lack of transparency in all those states.
The Alabama governor did not announce a change in the rules. He just announced what the rules are. The same old rules still stayed in effect.
Barry has shifted his propaganda machine into hyperdrive.
“The Alabama governor did not announce a change in the rules.”
I didn’t mention the Alabama governor.
The Alabama Secretary of State was mailed March 19 to make voting by mail elligible to everyone concerned about COVID. Here’s the letter.
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/2020-03-19_llt._merrill_letter_re-_covid_19_runoff.pdf
4 days later, on March 23, Alabama’s Republican Secretary of State sent out the guidance that people could mail in their votes citing concern about COVID as their reason, making everyone elligible.
https://www.sos.alabama.gov/newsroom/secretary-state-shares-guidance-absentee-voting-upcoming-july-14-primary-runoff-election
He repeated this guidance later in the year.
https://www.sos.alabama.gov/newsroom/secretary-state-issues-new-guidance-absentee-voting-november-3-general-election
Yes, Republicans, and states that Trump won, changed the rules without changing the legislation – or the constitution, which is what should have happened according to the Texas AG case denied by SCOTUS.
“lets assume it is all true. The problem is the left used the change in rules to cheat. Thats the difference between the left and the right.”
The problem is that you make your judgement based purely on political allegiance, and not from any checking of fact.
The facts have been checked and the department respinsible for cybersecurity in elections, the Department of Justice, various Republicans in the states named for election fraud inlcuding Republican governors, international observers invited by the State Department to observe election day, and 50 finished cases in courts of law have all affirmed that there was no widespread fraud.
Those internationals invited by the State Department did report conservatives intimidating poll counters.
So we have two completely different versions of events.
Trump loyalists and supporters believe without any question that the election was stolen by Democrats, Hugo Chavez, China, Venezuala, Germany, the CIA, Dominion voting systems and Smartmatic voting systems, abetted by the DoJ, several Republican governors and secretaries of state, the deep state, and, of course courts of law all over America, including the Supreme Court.
All these actors are, of course, ‘leftists’. Or weak. Or cowardly Or whatever rage-fuelled epithet springs to mind. Anyone who thinks Trump lost is either deluded or part of the conspiracy.
The rest of the world believes with little doubt that the elections were free and fair, that any fraud was limited to the usual handful of sneaky buggers, that the American system is not corrupted, but has instead prevailed while under attack from people who would rather destroy it than lose, and that Trump loyalists are completely deluded.
There isn’t much middle ground here.
“The problem is the left used the change in rules to cheat.”
This a CLAIM made by highly partisan hacks, Stephen, not a fact.
A claim that has consistently been TOSSED OUT in court.
So often in history, propaganda like this has been used to convince people to go to war.
I was just watching a documentary about WWII. They talked about what led to the invasion of Poland by Germany.
The Free Press was the ‘enemy of the people’ and had all been suppressed in Germany at that time.
After an effective govt run propaganda campaign that blamed Poland for all sorts of heinous acts, the German people were actually in favor of invading Poland in September, 1939.
Is it going to work on you, Stephen?
It was obviously cheating. The lack of transparency was cheating. The deep state isn’t going to investigate the election. They don’t want Trump. We all know Biden is illegitimate. He had never garnered more than one percent of the vote in any previous primary. The left claimed without any evidence for four years that Trump was illegitimate, claiming Russian collusion so they could truly cheat without guilt. Only psychopaths think this way.
“He had never garnered more than one percent of the vote in any previous primary.”
Whachu talkin bout Stephen??
Youve clearly drunk the kool-aid, and it’s destroying ur brain.
This is exactly what happened in Alabama. You keep spreading your propaganda lies, Barry.
https://www.wsfa.com/2020/09/30/judge-orders-changes-alabama-voting-laws-amid-pandemic/
Different issues – I’ve laid the history out, with links for you, above.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2020/11/benfords-law-part-2-inflated-vote-totals-or-just-the-nature-of-precinct-sizes/#comment-572179
The Texas AG case and many others for the Trump campaign argued that it is illegal/unconstitutional for courts and governors and secretaries of state cannot change election laws.
So Alabama should have come under the hammer – if the Republican lawsuits had any principle involved.
But legal fidelity is not what the Republicans are interested in.
Trump is ahead in the Electoral College Voting going on right now, 56 to 52.
Looking good for him.
Be on the lookout for any suspicious large influxes of Electoral Votes for Biden…
146 – 97 Biden JUMPED way ahead… WTF!!
Obviously some sort of fraud at work here!
I appreciate the opportunity to update you this afternoon on the Departments review of voter fraud allegations in the 2020 election and how these allegations will continue to be pursued. At a time when the country is so deeply divided, it is incumbent on all levels of government, and all agencies acting within their purview, to do all we can to assure the integrity of elections and promote public confidence in their outcome.
I am greatly honoured that you called on me to serve your administration and the American people once again as Attorney General. I am proud to have played a role in the many successes and unprecedented achievements you have delivered for the American people. Your 2016 victory speech in which you reached out to your opponents and called for working together for the benefit of the American people was immediately met by a partisan onslaught against you in which no tactic, no matter how abusive and deceitful, was out of bounds. The nadir of this campaign was the effort to cripple, if not oust, your administration with frenzied and baseless accusations of collusion with Russia.
Few could have weathered these attacks, much less forge ahead with a positive program for the country. You built the strongest and most resilient economy in American history one that has brought unprecedented progress to those previously left out. You have restored American military strength. By brokering historic peace deals in the Mideast you have achieved what most thought impossible. You have curbed illegal immigration and enhanced the security of our nations borders. You have advanced the rule of law by appointing a record number of judges committed to constitutional principles. With Operation Warp Speed, you delivered a vaccine for coronavirus on a schedule no one thought conceivable a feat that will undoubtedly save millions of lives.
During you administration, the Department of Justice has worked tirelessly to protect the public from violent crime; worked closely with leaders in Mexico to fight the drug cartels; cracked down on Chinas exploitation of our economy and workers; defended competition in the marketplace, especially the technology sector; and supported the men and women of law enforcement who selflessly and too often thanklessly risk their lives to keep our communities safe.
As discussed, I will spend the next week wrapping up a few remaining matters important to the administration and depart on December 23rd.
Wishing you, Melania, and your family a Merry Christmas and a Blessed Holiday Season. God Bless.
Sincerely,
William P Barr
MORE ABOUT
BILL BARR
DONALD TRUMP
US ELECTION 2020
ATTORNEY GENERAL
Barr. What a mensch. Did his best to politicize the Justice Dept, to become the boss’s next Roy Cohn.
But in the end, he couldn’t please da boss.
Couldn’t destroy his enemies.
Couldn’t manufacture an October surprise.
Couldn’t manufacture an election fraud.
Couldn’t save the king.
All that’s left to do is fall on his sword.
Or maybe, just…grovel off into the sunset.
AP: Electoral College makes it official: Biden won, Trump lost
The Electoral College is leftist.
OMG
“when they dont meet the bar they set, they move it.
This is what the presidents senior adviser, Stephen Miller, demonstrated on Monday when he insisted in an interview on ‘Fox & Friends’ that the Electoral College vote was largely irrelevant because all that truly mattered was Inauguration Day, Jan. 20.
‘So we have more than enough time to right the wrong of this fraudulent election result and certify Donald Trump as the winner’, Mr. Miller said, resetting the calendar to another scheme to invalidate the votes of millions of Americans, because the previous one had flopped.”
Now that Republicans in Washington are accepting the Electoral College results and congratulating Biden, hopefully the mass delusion will abate.
Barry Goebbels never stops. The only delusion is thinking this is going to end well for leftists.
How do you mean, Stephen?
He thinks with evil Dems in charge
a cabal of pedophiles and Satan-worshippers who run a global child sex-trafficking operation
will be set loose.
Or something like that.
He said, “this will not end well for leftists.”
I wonder what he means.
To clarify. “a cabal of pedophiles and Satan-worshippers who run a global child sex-trafficking operation” is what QANON followers actually believe about DEMS. And that DT is the only one that can stop them.
Like Stephen, they believe DEMs are not just wrong about policies, but also are EVIL, and always conspiring to do evil things.
Stephen seems like a natural fit for QANON.
Biden is such a dumbass. Did he actually think the elites would allow him to be President. They used him to get Kamala into the Presidency. They fixed the election for Kamala.
Yet another conspiracy theory.
The stories people tell themselves to feel better…
Somehow R elites allowed Trump to be President. The had no choice.
Stephen,
What did you mean by, “this will not end well for leftists?”
I mean exactly as it is stated.
What do you see happening for the leftists that won’t be good?
Or did you say that without an idea in your head?
The economy is going to collapse. It will be the mother of all depressions. And, now that the electoral college has elected Biden, he and the left will be blamed. The Democrats will attempt to blame Trump, but it won’t work. And, there isn’t anything under the Sun they can do to stop it. It won’t stop the masterminds from trying. They will be blamed for the next century. That’s what’s in my head.
Just like the last time DEM was in office. Oh wait.. that was a Republican.
The ‘left’ will be blamed for a looming economic recession that will be far worse than the current downturn?
Well we’ll have to wait and see, won’t we?
Conservative ultra-partisans will blame the left for everything. That’s standard operating procedure.
But everyone else will be sharply aware of the progress of this year’s pandemic and the numbers coming from John Hopkins and the C.D.C.
I think it should be a pretty easy sell to blame Trump for America’s woeful response to the coronavirus and the associated downturn.
I couldn’t agree more.
What I don’t understand is that the Republican party members did not monitor the voting much more closely after these 4 years of FNN, Russia Gate etc.
Maybe because voter fraud has been infinitesimal over the last few decades.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/debunking-voter-fraud-myth
The list of studies there includes 1 issued by Republicans. Let me extend your question – whyt have Republicans, who have historically made the biggest noise about voter fraud, rarely the ones who commission studies of it.
You watch the Republican party drop the voter fraud issue like a hot potato after Jan 20. They do that after nearly every election cycle, only to start up again around election time. Trump has spearheaded the overdrive version of this cynical malarkey this time around.
Maybe because courts don’t find evidence of singificant voter fraud, like they didn’t this time around – moe than 50 times.
Republican poll watchers were at every station and every ballot counting place, or were allowed to be there, even if they didn’t stick around.
All the horse pucky about conservative watchers bering bnarred en masse, Pennsylvania ‘suddenly’ narrowing the vote margin by 600 000 the morning after the elction, the 50+ court cases where only a handful asserted voter fraud despite conservative lawyers for Trump, Republicans and Trump himself screaming about fraud for the media, all the court cases that were found to have no reliable evidence and a ;lot of hot air.
But dson’t listen to the Department of Homeland Security, don’t less to the Gepartment of Justice, ignore Republican governors and senators and lawyers that said the allegations of fraud were without merit, ignore all the courts including the Supreme Court which is conservative-heavy, and where the 3 Trump picks didn’t even want to hear the anti-democratic, anti-Republican Texas suit to get the fed to tell states how to run their elections and wipe out millions of votes.
No, keep believing there was widespread fraud, and that all these people and institutions are part of the grand conspiracy. Because Trump says so.
Stephen` Paul Anderson says:
“It is about utopianism and globalism versus limited government and sovereignty.”
Global trade occurs spontaneously, it takes strong government controls to interfere with them. Not even the Soviet Union could suppress the resulting black markets completely.
“There is a long history in America of elites using voter fraud allegations to restrict and shape the electorate. In the late nineteenth century when newly freed black Americans were swept into electoral politics, and where blacks were the majority of the electorate, it was the Democrats who were threatened by a loss of power, and it was the Democratic party that erected new rules said to be necessary to respond to alleged fraud by black voters. Today, the success of voter registration drives among minorities and low income people in recent years threatens to expand the base of the Democratic party and tip the balance of power away from the Republicans. Consequently, the use of baseless voter fraud allegations for partisan advantage has become the exclusive domain of Republican party activists.”
http://www.projectvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/Politics_of_Voter_Fraud_Final.pdf
“In an exhaustive public records search, News21 reporters sent thousands of requests to elections officers in all 50 states, asking for every case of fraudulent activity including registration fraud, absentee ballot fraud, vote buying, false election counts, campaign fraud, casting an ineligible vote, voting twice, voter impersonation fraud and intimidation.
Analysis of the resulting comprehensive News21 election fraud database turned up 10 cases of voter impersonation. With 146 million registered voters in the United States during that time, those 10 cases represent one out of about every 15 million prospective voters.”
https://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/
The following is comprehensive study on voter engagement, ID and fraud, conducted by the United States Government Accountability Office.
https://www.gao.gov/assets/670/665966.pdf
To cut a long story short, the review of many studies of voter fraud and registration found limitations to the data for voter fraud, which also means that there is little evidence to suggest it occurs (despite statements that it has been significant in the past: ie, in Philidelphia).
The theme of a lack of evidence sure is familiar.
The review also suggests that increasingly onerous requirements to register and vote has disenfranchised minorities and lower economic class Americans.
——————————————————–
As I read further into this (I have a dozen tabs open to reports and studies), it is clear that voter supression is a real phenomenon, and that the cries of fraud have been a political tactic rather than a call for fairness.
So Lou Dobbs at Fox News did a segment asking an expert to speak about Smartmatic, where the expert affirmed that Smartmatic software was only used in LA, that no votes were sent overseas to be tabulated, and no other improper activity regarding Smartmatic in the 2020 US election.
And the reason he did this was because Smartmatic had had enough defamation from Fox and the Trump campaign, and took out a defamation suit.
Fox has the money to take on Smartmatic. But clearly they didn’t have the evidence, and bowed to Smartmatic’s demands in the suit that they debunk their own claims, with Lou Dobbs being the spokesman.
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/lou-dobbs-airs-stunning-fact-check-of-his-own-election-conspiracies-after-company-threatens-legal-action/
All this evidence of voter fraud vanishes when the time comes to pony up.
Business Insider has the same story and a bit more detail.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/smartmatic-voting-company-demands-retraction-fox-news-oan-newsmax-2020-12?r=US&IR=T
I never thought it was some software company. It was a corrupt election apparatus infiltrated by the left in several states. Whenever there is no transparency, there will be corruption and fraud.
You were bothered about the chairman of the board for the US branch of Smartmatic participating in the Biden transition.
Was that before you knew that Smartmatic machines were only used in LA?
“Whenever there is no transparency, there will be corruption and fraud.”
Well that’s a fine bumper sticker, but let’s peel it back and look underneath.
Where was there no transparency? Specifically state where election officials broke the rules.
(Not to mention that this platitude casts the CIA, FBI, and any covert military operation as intrinsically corrupt)
It is unseemly and looks suspicious to have the Smartmatic executive as part of his team, just like it was unseemly and suspicious to have Hunter as part of the Burisma board. If we had a fair media, they would be all over it. There is supposed to be complete transparency in election monitoring. In Pennsylvania, they physically distanced poll watchers. They also did this in Wisconsin and Michigan. Also, you had the Pennsylvania expert who described a guy running around with memory sticks and not explaining what he was doing. We’ve never received an adequate explanation, just this; oh, it’s been debunked BS, the same leftist playbook. In Georgia, they processed ballots after they asked the Republican poll watchers to leave. No transparency equals fraud- period.
The CIA and FBI are so blatantly biased for the deep state, big government, especially under Comey and Brennan, that you could say they are intrinsically corrupt. Many of the agents don’t even realize it. I’m sure the “whistleblower” thought he was doing his duty, but he was so biased he only saw things one way. The President has broad powers, but the “whistleblower,” Eric Ciaramella, thought he had a right and a duty to limit and report on Trump, his boss, and Chief Executive.
The deep state are basically against the people. That’s why Trump was elected. Most people realize Washington is not for the people.
You keep creating these straw man arguments, “well, Lou Dobbs had to retract his cheating statements,” so the whole claim about election fraud is bogus. I don’t give a rat’s ass what Lou says one way or the other. Although he does know Sidney Powell is no dummy. The election wasn’t transparent. The left used the pandemic to cheat and hide election fraud in the name of pandemic restrictions. Put a thief alone in a room, and he’s going to take. That is the leftist Democrats. That is their nature.
“The deep state are basically against the people. Thats why Trump was elected. Most people realize Washington is not for the people.”
The deep state are the people that are apolitical that make the govt work, for us. They are the people that understand and support the basic science research that gave us the vaccines. They gather and analyze the intelligence and whats going on in various adversary countries. They keep us safe from nuclear accidents, and toxic waste, and tainted food. The find and prosecute people like Bernie Madoff and the Unabomber.
Thanks deep state!
Apolitical? You’re either (1) insane, (2) a dumbass, (3) have your head up your ass, or (4) a leftist propagandist. I vote number four.
Stephen,
As usual, you need to dismiss all the positive things that the so-called ‘deep state’ does for us, since it doesnt fit your good vs evil narrative.
These people are not political appointees. DO you get what that means?
That means they serve us, not a particular President.
That means continuity in public health, intelligence gathering, national defense, and criminal investigating, even though Trump did his darndest to politicize it all.
“In Pennsylvania, they physically distanced poll watchers.”
They physically distanced all the poll-watchers due to COVID. Conservatives got the same access as Dems. Then the conservative poll-watchers litigated to get closer and won. A higher court overturned that ruling. They had cameras and live-stream in Pennsylvania, too, as well as other places, which is where the videos of ballot counts come from.
Smartmatic machines were used in one city, and not a battleground state. The person who worked with the transition team is a retired coast guard admiral experienced working with government. He’s received 2 distinguished service medals from the Dep of Homeland Security.
https://www.smartmatic.com/en/about/our-team/detail/3248/
He volunteered to help on the Dep Homeland Security transition team.
https://buildbackbetter.gov/the-transition/agency-review-teams/
If you look deeper than the soundbyte, you see he’s actually well-suited to the work.
Wow!
In my state, Tennessee, there are 95 counties. The state is overwhelmingly Republican. However, in almost every county, over 90%, the election officials are overwhelmingly Democrat. Only about five counties in the state are majority Democrat. Those counties probably receive the most claims of election fraud, especially on local elections. However, in states like Pennsylvania or Michigan, which have become swing states, the fraud can swing Presidential elections. Why are most election workers and election officials Democrats? Democrats are all about big government. Democrats believe that government is the solution and not the problem. Democrats want to use all means necessary to sway an election and to advance their agenda. They believe the ends justify the means.
Far as I can make out, Republicans automatically cry fraud in elections, but only in any place where it might make a difference to the outcome.
To emphasise the cynical opportunism of this approach, a bunch of cases were thrown out because the Republican challengers had waited too long to challenge the rule book. Instead of challenging when the rules were changed – in some cases more than a year ago – they waited until after the election, and after they had seen results they didn’t like, and then challenged the rules.
Had they won those areas of course, they would never have challenged the rules, because they don’t actually care about the rules, only the outcome. And we know they wouldn’t have challenged areas where they won, because the rules were changed in many states, and were not challenged where Republicans won.
So this amazing coincidence. The rule changes were illegitimate only wherever Biden won, and only in places where it could possibly make a difference to the outcome.
You have to be partisan blind to not see the clear BS in these amazing coincidences, but luckily you also have courts of law across America also recognizing the BS and tossing those cases.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2020/11/benfords-law-part-2-inflated-vote-totals-or-just-the-nature-of-precinct-sizes/#comment-575434
Lin Wood on rigged and unconstitutional Georgia election.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgr02u-a1vc
Lin Wood: “The law in this country is clear – it’s unequivocal – in a federal election a state cannot change its procedures except by an Act of the state legislature.”
He says that here – https://youtu.be/Cgr02u-a1vc?t=87
That’s a pretty clear statement of opinion. But why is this standard not then being applied to every state that changed its procedures without an Act of the state legislature? Plenty of those listed here.
Now, Stephen, you have a different opinion. Unlike Wood, you don’t think that this applies to every sate, you think that some states have laws that allow changes without legislation.
So you disagree with him in the first couple of minutes of the video. What did you think when he said the above?
Lin Woods believes Trump needs to use Martial Law to enforce our elections’ integrity and the rule of law.
Well of course. So does Mike Flynn. These guys think it’s perfectly legitimate for a national leader to use force to maintain power.
They support facism, pure and simple.
The question is are you for that Stephen?
Are you ready for Trump to subvert the will of the people, to become a dictator?
Are you gonna be like Germans in 1934, when Hitler declared martial law and took all powers for himself?
It seems so.
California is the precursor to the whole country. California is collapsing and leading the way. The leftists are leading the whole country into the abyss.
California is an economic engine. It has the 5th largest GDP in the world. Just ahead of India which has 1 Billion people.
This is the left and the deep state. They are the party of corruption and criminals.
https://www.newsmax.com/tomfitton/district-of-columbia/2020/12/16/id/1001768/
So the city hired an ex-con as part of a program to clean up crime-filled neighbourhoods, and it turned out the ex-con had murdered someone.
Newsmax, that font of fair and balanced journalism, somehow completely forgot to date the murder. I checked twice – the article makes it seem like the murder just happened.
Guy’s been working as a ‘violence interrupter’ for 2 years. He committed the murder in 2017. He’s just gone to prison for it.
So his employers are now corrupt because this guy murdered someone 3 years ago and they didn’t know about it?
Brilliant logic there.
However, you have no problem linking Wikipedia, CNN, MSNBC, the Atlantic or a cadre of other leftist propaganda media.
You missed the whole point of the story. The story shows how using ex-cons as “violence interrupters” is typical of the leftist mentality, and defunding the police might not be such a good idea. How’s it working out for Seattle and New York?
I know that for you, all ‘Leftists’ are the same.
But Biden is not for “defunding the police”.
Stephen, I checked the story. Even though I know Newsmax is an extreme right wing tabloid.
Newsmax should have disclosed that the murder happened 3 years ago, but I guess that would have made the article less racy.
Using ex-cons may or may not be a good idea – there’s certainly to recommend rehabilitation if possible, rather than letting them loose with no aim or supervision – but when you posted it you said it showed “corruption.”
It doesn’t.
It’s a cheap shot. And it’s a shot easily played straight back to the right. Some people Trump has hired have been convicted of felonies. And unlike the murder charge, these were for corrupt activities.
Should I judge the right for these people’s behaviour? You would argue that I should, if you were consistent.
This is a great overview of the election cases brought by the Trump campaign and supporters.
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/donald-trump-says-judges-have-refused-to-look-at-the-evidence-of-voter-fraud-is-he-right/news-story/d4f1fd532cfa6e9ccebc45793f0f6ab3
It explains the kind of evidence brought up, and how the evidence was weighed.
They don’t hold the evidence. The evidence is buried somewhere in all the election systems, requiring extensive examination from unbiased forensic data specialists. It should be the FBI, but they are part of the deep state. Your constant blabbering like the rest of your leftist sycophants is nothing but propaganda. The fact that there was no transparency in all of these states is all the evidence we need. Elections, especially in our Republic, are supposed to be completely transparent. Maybe not so in your banana Republic but this is the USA, the pinnacle of freedom in the world which your side is desperately trying to end. There will always be people in the world who cherish freedom over all else and are willing to die to defend it.
Its very convenient for Stephen’s conspiracist views, that the information is buried, and will remain so, since those who could investigate it are all part of the conspiracy.
It allows him to continue to believe in the conspiracy, and the evil deep state, while never having to see any actual evidence.
X-files motto: ‘The Truth is Out There’
But it will not be revealed for at least 9 seasons. It kept us watching.
“They dont hold the evidence. The evidence is buried somewhere in all the election systems, requiring extensive examination from unbiased forensic data specialists. It should be the FBI”
So no one has the evidence. It’s buried somewhere.
So what the fuck have Giuliani et al been turning up to court with?
The judges were correct, then, to say there was no evidence, as you, Stephen, are telling us “they don’t hold the evidence.”
Can you just take a step back and consider what you have admitted here?
“The fact that there was no transparency in all of these states is all the evidence we need”
We couldn’t see if anything went wrong, and that’s why we know something went wrong.
I’ve asked you to detail the lack of transparency. You’re not allowed to stand next to a person casting a vote in a booth. So short of breaking the law, how was access denied? By keeping poll watchers 6 feet away from counters? Is that it?
Original tweeter claiming 128K votes going 100% to Biden retracts his tweet.
https://tinyurl.com/y7ltrdf8
The lack of transparency and 18 of the 19 bellwether counties going for Trump is strong enough evidence that this election was rigged. No one but idiots and hard-core leftists believes that Biden received the most votes ever by any person running for President, no one.
The media sites whose links you keep posting here defended Iran and Trump’s assassination of our enemy Soleimani and then defended China when Trump labeled the coronavirus the “China Virus,” calling Trump a racist and xenophobe. But, you and your leftist myrmidons love the communist party. Che Guevera’s adventures were romantic, were they not? He helped create such a wonderful utopia called Cuba.
You mean someone here likes the left more than Gordon Robertson? Please quote.
A new Fox News poll finds that 42% of voters say history will remember President Donald Trump as one of the worst presidents ever.
An additional 8% say he will be remembered as below average, while 22% say one of the greatest, 16% say above average and 10% say below average.
Who is “you,” and what links are you referring to?
78 percent of the mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania were for Biden. 78%. Something’s rotten in Pennsylvania.
Says someone very very gullible..
We’ve been thru all this, Stephen. Where were you?
“There is fraud unfortunately in most elections, I think we’re too tolerant of it,” he said. But in this election, Barr said, he stands by the finding that there was no systemic or broad based fraud, a finding the President refuses to admit.
It was 75% once the counting was done. It was 78% on Nov 4. Stop your spin.
It’s not rotten. The majority of mail-in voters was always going to be Democrats. Conservatives were encouraged to vote at the polling booth and eschew mail votes. That tipped the scales all over the country in terms of how which side voted.
And the vast majority of mail votes came from the cities, which are mostly Democrat strongholds. Clinton won Philadelphia at 67% of the vote (mail + poll booth). Trump won the PA election booth vote this year at 66%. Obviously lots of Democrats, especially from cities, chose to vote by mail. Which is not surprising, because they take COVID more seriously than conservatives.
The Republicans could go one of two ways – encourage people to vote by mail, or try to prevent people voting by mail across. But they’re going to be more likely lose again if they don’t deal with it. I think they should encourage people to vote by mail. It seems to have a useful side effect of getting more people to vote.
America should:
Establish an independent election commission to run elections. It is simply nuts that any political party could run the election in any way.
Change voting day to Saturday. Making people vote on a workday is a great way to suppress the vote.
No, once counting was done, Biden received 76.3, Trump 22.7, and Libertarian 0.9 percent. Why don’t you stop your spin? And, Biden receiving over 76% of mail-in ballots doesn’t add up. Overall, mail-in ballot stats in the swing states and especially Pennsylvania indicate fraud.
“Biden receiving over 76% of mail-in ballots doesn’t add up.”
Again, we went all thru this before Stephen.
Given that Rs voted mostly in person, it definitely does add up.
But of course simple the math and logic is very unsatisfying to someone prone to believe in conspiracies.
“No, once counting was done, Biden received 76.3, Trump 22.7, and Libertarian 0.9 percent.”
Could you provide a link? I searched using those numbers and had no luck finding that result. At least we are agreed it wasn’t 78% by the final tally.
It is pointless, going to the judiciary. They are spineless and are appointed FOR LIFE. If you go to them before the election, they say it is too early to rule on something that hasn’t happened yet, but then if you go to them after the election, they say it is too late. The status quo guarantees their appointment for life.
“Justice Hagedorn, a member of the conservative Federalist Society, who in 2016 founded a private school that forbids same-sex relationships among its employees and students, is no longer a darling of the right. In a series of 4-3 decisions in recent months, he sided with the courts three liberal justices to stop an effort to purge 130,000 people from the Wisconsin voter rolls, block the Green Party candidate and Kanye West from the general election presidential ballot and, on two separate occasions, reject President Trumps effort to overturn President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.s victory in Wisconsin.”
“When I ran, I was pretty consistent that I believe deeply that law and politics are not the same thing. Most of us probably have some hope that our preferred candidate or our preferred policies, that the law runs in the same direction, but that isnt always the case. And I said I was going to be a textualist and an originalist. I believe very deeply in those things.
And I think my decisions have reflected that. And I made clear even when I was running that I would make decisions that Im sure some folks, certainly conservatives, may not like from a policy outcome and that when I do, I was just following the law. People should know that.”
“Talk radio in Wisconsin, particularly on the conservative side, is very prominent. I turned on the radio one morning driving to work and heard what a horrible person I was. So its hard to miss it. Yes, Ive been called a traitor. Ive been called a liar. Ive been called a fraud. Ive been asked if Im being paid off by the Chinese Communist Party. Ive been told I might be tried for treason by a military tribunal. Sure, Ive gotten lots of interesting and sometimes dark messages.”
“Maybe members of the public forget this because their civic culture really just doesnt know how to debate issues in a very healthy way right now. And there is sort of this tribal understanding that either youre with us or youre against us.
Ive got five young kids and, sure, theres certain uncomfortableness, too, when your child asks you whether its OK to play in the front yard or whether they should just stay in the backyard.”
Stephen Paul Anderson says:
“It is pointless, going to the judiciary”
… because they are evidence based.
Brilliant contribution Svante.
This is the fundamental problem with Trump, he is not reality based.
You can be quite happy in fantasy land for a while, but sooner or later you will be hit by reality. Like global warming or Covid-19.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8yOv4PwttM
Stephen,
Do you honestly think the judge quoted above, who has endured the wrath of his party and threats to his and his families safety in order to make judgements based on the law as he sees it, is spineless?
Most people with no skin in the game would say he is just the opposite of that.
But as he notes “there is sort of this tribal understanding that either youre with us or youre against us”,
And that doesnt allow judgements of people as individuals, and on their merits.
On Friday, Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy and Chief of Staff Gen. James McConville said in a joint statement that there “is no role for the U.S. military in determining the outcome of an American election.”
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-secretary-chief-2020-election-mike-flynn/
When the military was saying this earlier in the year I figured it was a bit beyond the pale. They’d been asked the question because Trump had refused to confirm he’d leave office if the election didn’t go his way.
But now Michael Flynn and Lin Wood have openly called for a military intervention, and Trump has reportedly been considering it in the last few days…
Looks like these concerns were well founded. Trump would be a dictator without people holding him back, and his supporters would be quite content to support his return under facism.
(Stephen, feel free to check the credentials of the link I supplied there)
You’re good at linking, aren’t you? Not very good at thinking. Why don’t you check their credentials before you post? Why don’t you try to gain a little understanding of the US military before you post? Why not? Because you’re a dimwit leftist.
You must be scouring the internet looking for these little leftist tidbits? That’s what a propagandist would do.
This is actual investigative reporting. This election was rigged.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WExMnjVKu44
There was no transparency in these swing states, and when there is no transparency, there is a fraud, 100 percent of the time.
We sure have a Republican fraud right now.
Hope the party can come back to reality.
“I never thought it was some software company. It was a corrupt election apparatus infiltrated”
But why are you showing us a video that is all about the software?
Meanwhile Newsmax is debunking all its own reporting of the last month on the voting machines.
Actually, Stephen, I rejected a couple of other links to the same item. I figured a publication about the military which is edited by an ex-marine would be ok.
But apparently you think the story is bogus because of the publication. How convenient that you can write off anything you don’t want to deal with by rubbishing any source – and that may be the thing you have done most in this thread.
Someone has gathered up much of the evidence that was debunked in court and made a video about it without mentioning that the evidence was debunked in court.
It’s ok if they don’t agree with the court, and they should say so. But ommitting that the evidence has been weighed in court during a documentary is shoddy, partisan journalism.
Also forgetting to mention that certain ‘evidence’ was retracted by the person offering it.
I see there’s a segment about Dominion voting systems. Georgia used Dominion, and the recount of the paper ballots confirmed the results. Twice.
I didn’t watch the whole video, but I’ll bet a dollar to a dime that this fact is not mentioned either.
There’s a bunch of people saying that there could have been election fraud in there. And no one demonstrating actual fraud.
How many times can the same set of baseless assertions and speculation get paraded out before people realize it’s the same set of baseless assertions and speculation?
It wasn’t debunked in court. It wasn’t even examined. No FBI, no FEC, no postal inspectors, no state agencies, no one. For the lawyers to do it, legal discovery is a slow process; you know that. Investigators start with suspicion. They have to understand a crime was committed. When it comes to election fraud with modern voting machines, it takes a forensic examination. There has been nothing debunked. But there have been revelations of suspicious behavior, suspicious data, and total lack of transparency.
No, you link a supposed military reporting site that’s been around all of a whopping six years, run by three leftists, and tied at the hip to the New York Times.
It is bogus because it is obvious that the site and you don’t understand the military chain of command. Neither the Secretary of the Army nor the Chief of Staff is in the operational chain of command. They have absolutely no say regarding operational orders. However, if Trump gave them an administrative order like changing the toilet paper budget, they could refuse and resign.
Some leftists have probably promised these two that if they publicly buck the President, it will go well for them in the next administration. What a couple of cowards.
You’ve just demonstrated the kind of evidence the courts have thrown out. But you’ve convicted them of cowardice on “probably.”
No one who speaks against Trump coulod possibly have any merit. Not ever.
That is actually and truly the way you think. It’s not just partisanship, it’s being a yes man.
“Neither the Secretary of the Army nor the Chief of Staff is in the operational chain of command. They have absolutely no say regarding operational orders.”
Any officer can refuse to disobey an order if it is manifestly unlawful.
As I said, I thought when the military was quoted earlier in the year saying much the same thing (and they said it more than once, and they said at the last election), I thought it was unnecessary: that it spoke to something far-fetched.
But when Lin Wood and Michael Flynn actually suggested exactly that on video recently, and Trump was reportedly considering using the military in the way these guys were suggesting, I had to concede that it was not excessive for military leaders to weigh in in the public debate.
What do you think, Stephen? Do you think Trump should order the military to do something about the election? That reads as absolute facism to me, once you get the military involved in your political disputes.
‘Leftists’ ‘Cowards’
Many of the people are quite the opposite, conservative, and effing courageous enough to endure the wrath of their party, the President, and the Trolls.
But no matter, if they’re running against Stephen, they must be Leftist Cowards.
Stephen, honestly, its hard to believe you are for real, sometimes.
Yes, I do. I think Trump should activate the military and seize voting machines and any other evidence. This was a forceful insurrection in several states.
No, it isn’t fascism. It is adhering and defending the Constitution. What the left is doing is fascist.
Military leaders don’t get to speak out against their commanders. In the mainstream media, it is vogue to elicit crap like this from military officers and officials against Trump. Those who participate are cowards.
Stephen,
Willing to follow the Dear Leader into the abyss of dictatorship?
And somehow you think he is following the Constitution?
What a sucker you are.
“It wasnt debunked in court. It wasnt even examined.”
Plenty of evidence was examined in court. It was foubnd to be threadbare, hearsay, baseless, or just plain wrong.
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/donald-trump-says-judges-have-refused-to-look-at-the-evidence-of-voter-fraud-is-he-right/news-story/d4f1fd532cfa6e9ccebc45793f0f6ab3
That long list of judicial reviews is not complete. The affadavits that were brandished by Trump lawyers early in the election campai… I mean the legal campaign to overturn the election, were read by judges and tossed for lacking specifics, being hearsay, speculative, or just plain wrong.
As I said, legal discovery takes awhile. The left and the courts know this. The left knew this when they made plans to steal the election. They knew there isn’t time to do the forensic examinations necessary before the electors met. That is what they were counting on. The fact that Trump did not have enough concrete evidence is not shocking. Those facts presented by Joshua Philips of Epoch Times are enough where a judge should order a harder examination of the evidence. The courts are cowards and mostly establishment. They will go with the status quo. Short of Trump presenting a video of top state election officials in those states saying “we cheated and this is how we did it,” the courts will rule there isn’t any evidence. Trump should declare martial law and halt the whole process until everything is examined. The way this is going, it will be our last election.
Both sides (all parties) must agree and abide by a civil contract that elections will be free, open, transparent, and fair to have a free Republic. When one side breaks that contract, you no longer have a free Republic. It is done. When those states locked the Republicans out of the room and declined to share the information, the election was no longer transparent. The Republic is done.
Or, Trump must take the Republic back. Those are the only two options. Either it is over, or you take it back.
Wow! Has your Dear Leader turned socialist?
“I’m asking Congress to amend this bill and increase the ridiculously low $600 to $2000 or $4000 per couple,” Trump said in a video released on Twitter. This is more like the Dems wanted…
Here is what Ron Paul said about the $900:
“The Kentucky Republican, criticized the $892 billion coronavirus relief package and accused Congress of handing out “free money” that would add to the federal government’s national debt.
You said earlier “Don’t listen to what Trump says”. Is that the case here, or has he really turned so leftist?
Law enforcement advised him not to return home and instead escorted him, with just the clothes on his back, to a friend’s house for safety.
“I was scared,” Hartmann told The Epoch Times. “[The police] actually had people stationed outside in different locations, watching, in case anything happened. They were there for three or four days.”
Hartmann said he didn’t venture outside for a week.
“I was afraid that somebody might recognize me when I was out and want to beat me up,” he said.
Hartmann was one of two Republican members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers who initially refused to certify the election results due to imbalances in the numbers.
Hartmann and Monica Palmer deadlocked the certification in a 2–2 vote on Nov. 17, which resulted in a swift and hostile reaction from Democrats and community leaders over Zoom.
The two were called a “disgrace” by Rev. Wendell Anthony, a pastor and head of the Detroit branch of the National Association of the Advancement of Colored People, The Associated Press reported.
“You have extracted a black city out of a county and said the only ones that are at fault is the city of Detroit, where 80 percent of the people who reside here are African Americans. Shame on you!” Anthony said.
Ned Staebler, a vice president at Wayne State University in Detroit, said, “The stain of racism that you, William Hartmann and Monica Palmer, have just covered yourself in is going to follow you throughout history.”
Hartmann said that while he was concerned that the numbers in predominantly black Detroit didn’t add up, the discrepancies in predominantly white Livonia were worse.
Both Hartmann and Palmer changed their votes later that night after they were assured the state would allow an independent audit to be performed. The results were certified, although the two still haven’t officially signed the certification. The next day, Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson said the independent audit wouldn’t proceed.
“The news media went to my house and filmed the front of my house and my address,” Hartmann said. “And then my website was doxxed. And I got over 1,500 hate emails. And you got to then throw social media on top of that.”
He didn’t receive any explicit death threats, but was told to “burn in hell” many times, he said.
Hartmann worked with a friend to retrieve some clothes and his computer from his home.
“He arranged with the local police department to have an unmarked van and a couple police cars go to my house. I gave him the key and I stayed in a remote location and we communicated using FaceTime … and I told them what to get,” Hartmann said.
“So they did that. And then, the police cars sort of blocked in the news media vans. And then the other van—they had taken the license plates off just so that they couldn’t be tracked down—and that drove different ways till they got to where I was. And then I got all my stuff and I drove back to where I was staying.”
Hartmann said the tenant in his duplex also was forced to go live with her sister for a while.
He’s back home now, but the police still conduct regular drive-bys, he said.
Yes Stephen, people on both sides have been threatened.
Does it matter to you that its both sides?
No, the violence, threats and intimidation has been 99% from the left.
You pluckeed that figure from thin air.
“99% from the Left”
Since the Left is defined as everyone who does bad things, that works.
Noted Leftist Pat Robertson says Trump “is living in an alternate reality”.
This above is typical of crap that you link. They take a Supreme Court order and then surround it with leftist propaganda and call it factual. You are Barry Goebbels, Minister of Propaganda.
“Goebbels”
This is the classic Trump Con-Man technique you are using.
Take a word that describes you or your Team, and simply label your opponent with that.
In 2016, DT accused the Clintons of using their Foundation like an ATM.
Where did he get this idea? Because HE used his Foundation like an ATM, as he later was caught doing.
You need to look at history. Goebbels was a leftist, like you.
Wrong! He was a populist – just like DT.
Wrong again, Bozo.
Shanly’s nickname: “Always Wrong.”
Your lack of knowledge is alarming –but may be not surprising since your main source of information appears to be Sidney Powell, Lin Wood, Lou Dobbs and like-minded people – not to forget Donald Trump.
The internal opposition to Hitler (and Goebbels) was mainly the “leftist” as you call them– Social Democrats and the communists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power
“German newspapers wrote that, without doubt, the Hitler-led government would try to fight its political enemies (the left-wing parties), but that it would be impossible to establish a dictatorship in Germany because….”
“… the conservatives that helped to make him chancellor were convinced that they could control Hitler and “tame” the Nazi Party while setting the relevant impulses in the government themselves..”
“.. the Nazis began to suspend civil liberties and eliminate political opposition. The Communists were excluded from the Reichstag.”
A large proportion of the Germans allowed themselves to be manipulated and misinformed, and looked upon Hitler as their “dear leader” and saviour: “In the federal election of July 1932, the Nazis won 37.3%.”
However, outsiders were able to forsee what was about to happen:
Sir Horace Rumbold, British Ambassador in Berlin, … On 22 February 1933 wrote, “Hitler may be no statesman but he is an uncommonly clever and audacious demagogue and fully alive to every popular instinct,…… On receiving the dispatch Robert Vansittart, Permanent Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, concluded that if Hitler eventually gained the upper hand, “then another European war [was] within measurable distance..”
“audacious demagogue and fully alive to every popular instinct” – does that sound familiar, Stephen?
In Stephen’s world, Fascists who beat up, jailed, and killed Communists and Labor Leaders and Socialists and Internationalists, and all other leftists are….somehow…. Leftists, and AntiFa, who are anti Fascists, are leftist, even though they are anti Leftist!
And Unite the Right rallies which bring together neo Nazis and Alt right and KKK and other white supremacists, are, somehow, actually, Unite the Leftists rallies in Stephen’s bizzarro world.
Stephen doesnt feel constrained by reality.
Biden picks Buttigieg, who couldn’t even get potholes fixed in South Bend, as his Transportation Secretary. However, the only thing important to the media is that he is openly gay.
Newsmax, following Fox news, does a huge backflip on reporting on Smartmatic and Dominion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Ol2OJPZYY
Newsmax finally reported on the information that has been provided by Smartmatic and Dominion for weeks. They had ignored it – even to query its veracity. Just ignored information vital to having a good overview of the issue.
It took the threat of a lawsuit to get them to report ALL the information.
If only they had that ‘evidence’ on the tabulators. Then they wouldn’t have had to retract.
Giuliani has thrwon Sidney Powell under the bus on air on Newsmax. The Trump campaign doesn’t share her opinions.
So either she’s wrong or the Trump campaign is scuttling their own hopes by disavowing her.
Hey Stephen.
This article lays out (US) liberal philosophy and ideology, treying to establish why it is the left are so freaked out by Trump. There is plenty of criticism of the left in there, looking right at the core of what liberals are and wrestle with.
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/48/mass-psychology-in-the-age-of-trump/
You keep talking about the left. You should take the time to get to know it.
There is a difference between a liberal and a leftist. The Democrat Party is not liberal. It is leftist.
Marxist are leftists. Nazis are leftists. Fascists are leftists. Socialists are leftists. Monarchists are leftists. Democrats are leftists. Read all their platforms and core beliefs. They all believe in a big government with an “elite” in charge and limit the freedoms of the people. They all believe in one-party rule, state ownership, limiting, and controlling the private enterprise. It is straightforward to define a leftist. You are a leftist. Read a couple of Mark Levin’s books, “Liberty and Tyranny” or “Ameritopia.” They are very clear.
Did you read the article?
Has anybody understood how Stephen’ defines “leftist”?
Stephen, can you name one person who has strongly disagreed with Trump that you don’t think is a leftist?
It is not about disagreeing with things Trump says. He says many things but always does the right thing. It is a battle between good and evil. Trump, although imperfect like us all, is on the side of good. We fully support him. And, we will fight the tyrannical left with our dying breaths.
Amen.
So, Stephen, you can’t name anyone who strongly disagrees with Trump that isn’t a leftist?
How about Chris Christie?
Stop the stupidity. It isn’t about Trump. It has never been. I can’t name anyone who strongly disagrees with conservatism who isn’t a leftist.
Right, so you will be looking forward to the Georgia run-offs for control of the senate.
STOP THE STEAL
Republicans just voted to de-fund the police
GOP leaders over the past week defeated efforts to help states and cities that are facing cutbacks to public safety and other services because of the pandemic-caused budget crisis. They claimed this would amount to what Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) called a blue state bailout. In reality, it was more of a blue bailout – and police in blue and red states alike are now on the chopping block.
Despite the clear evidence that shrinking revenue in cities across the country is leading to job loss and the reduction of critical services like public safety, the bipartisan U.S. Conference of Mayors protested this week, Congress chose to turn its back on first responders, police, firefighters and other essential workers.
An August study by the Police Executive Research Forum, a police-leader membership organization, found that, of 258 police agencies questioned, 48 percent expected budget cuts or already had dealt with cuts. Among large police departments, 58 percent expected or had experienced cuts. Only 16 percent overall had or expected increases. The expectation is now unfolding, with delays in police hiring, cuts in overtime, training and technology, and the first indications of layoffs. Compounding the problem is you have this huge spike in violent crime after decades of decline. Though federal statistics lag, homicides were up 28 percent in the first nine months of 2020.
But the refusal to help states and cities in the pandemic-caused fiscal crisis (McConnell once suggested letting them go bankrupt) is dangerous; 1.3 million state and local workers have lost their jobs since February. About 1 million of those losses have come in education, but its happening to public safety workers, too.
Washington refusal to help states and localities is, ironically, doing more to de-fund the police than the left de-fund movement could. Trump and Republicans were correct when they warned of a threat to public safety. The culprits, though, are Republicans who promised law and order but, with their votes, de-funded the police.
Stop being so dimwitted. Those leftists states got themselves into the mess they’re in. Now they want to bring their mess to the rest of us. Why should the rest of us bail them out? Their police are quitting in droves. Let them live with the mess they made. The rest of us will not.
I see that 12 local elected officials in Georgia wrote the state’s two U.S. senators (who both face runoff elections) to say the covid-19 package “fails to provide vital funds for essential workers in local governments: workers like teachers, firefighters and law enforcement.”
Tennessee has the highest violent crime rate of any state in the South and the third highest of any state nationwide.
Being from Texas I’d be happy to watch it burn from a distance, but I do have vested interests in some of those crime ridden “leftist” states. My Dad taught me “you make the most money when there is blood in the streets,” but I’m in it for the long haul.
Where do you think this money comes from?
Is it the federal government’s role to be everyone’s nanny?
This is the left. This is who the left is. Everyone must follow the rules but them. They get a paycheck every month. They don’t care about anyone else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwjqR60ZHBQ
What was the health/safety issue?
You have no idea about anything Stephen.
Every single society on the planet has rules and laws. That isn’t socialism. That’s civilization.
A disagreement about the degree of government regulation isn’t a black white argument about socialism or not.
You talk about freedom and liberty as if you should be able to do whatever you want. But even conservatives uphold the law.
The debate you’re trying to have is mindless. It paints everyone on the left as being the same, it caricatures the general tenets of liberal ideology out of all meaning.
A shop owner getting shut down by the health department isn’t tyranny, you fool.
Tyranny is a national leader ordering the military to help change the results of an election.
Next up, a video about someone getting done for speeding, or not wearing a seatbelt – tyranny! I can drive at whatever speed I like! I can run my restaurant any way I want to!
Looks like he needs government support.
It isn’t a health safety issue, you frigging moron. It is about survival. We don’t need the government being our nanny. A free adult decides to open his business. Free adults decide to go there. That’s what freedom is. We have open restaurants all over our town. People go to them. We don’t have bodies all over the place. It is media perpetuated mass hysteria in the name of security.
I know two people who have died from Covid. Both had skirted death for years. People are born, people die, the world turns. But to impose lockdowns in the name of security is tyrannical.
You call yourselves the resistance. The resistance to what? You’re the oppressors in the name of security.
Is it the federal governments role to be everyones nanny?
Well your Dear Leader seems to have no problem with it. Giving away more money is what he wants, and getting us deeper into Debt.
He is not a conservative.
We wouldn’t have had this pandemic if not for you leftists. Leftists created the virus. He feels for the people.
Tennessee has had the highest number new cases recently..
You’re such a dimwit. Most propagandists are. You repeat any talking point you see or hear in the media. Myrmidon.
“Youre such a dimwit. Most propagandists are. You repeat any talking point you see or hear in the media. Myrmidon.”
At least I dont need to deny everything in the media that doesnt fit my bizzarro worldview, as you do.
I have extended family in Tennesse who are Trump supporters and gathered maskless for Thanksgiving, now two of them are sick with Covid.
Denial of reality eventually catches up to you.
Have you never been sick? You’ve never had any disease? It is called living. Grow up.
“It isn’t a health safety issue, you frigging moron. It is about survival.”
Well I watched the video and the guy was upset because a health and safety officer had told him to close the restaurant.
So what happened here? Why was he shut down?
“Have you never been sick? You’ve never had any disease? It is called living. Grow up.”
Its called many dying unnecessarily, dumbass.
Thats the denial of reality thats keeping the US in the lead with COVID deaths.
Getting tired of winning on that one.
Sounds like Fallujah to me
Dec. 25, 2020Updated 10:43 a.m. ET
An explosion rocked downtown Nashville on Christmas morning, sending smoke rising high above the city, blowing out store windows and forcing evacuations. Authorities said they believe the explosion was an intentional act.
Officials said at a news conference that three people were injured and taken to hospitals. So far, there are no fatalities, they said.
An explosion linked to a vehicle occurred at 6:30 a.m. outside 166 2nd Ave N in downtown Nashville, the Metro Nashville Police Department said on Twitter.
A senior federal law enforcement official said the F.B.I. was investigating the matter and in the very early stages of trying to gather the facts about what had occurred.
I thought we left the war behind when we left Iraq.
Gov. Bill Lee asked the White House on Saturday for federal assistance due to the “severity and magnitude” of the explosion’s impact. At least 41 buildings were damaged, and communications systems — including residential and cell phone service and 911 call centers — failed across the state, he said. Kentucky and northern Alabama were also affected, he said.
https://www.climatedepot.com/2018/08/03/108-graphs-from-89-new-papers-invalidate-claims-of-unprecedented-global-scale-modern-warmth/
Here is the real data.
Great, the “real data” shows that these places were warm and cold at different times, often one place is cold while another place is warm.
So I wonder about the title:
“108 Graphs From 89 New Papers Invalidate Claims Of Unprecedented Global-Scale Modern Warmth”
I guess somebody should align the timelines and average the temperatures to get a global scale temperature record.
And what to do with the papers that only consider the 1000 year temp record for JULY in location X? How do we turn that into a global scale record?
The Navarro Report:
https://bannonswarroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/The-Immaculate-Deception-12.15.20-1.pdf
Now he actually is a minister of propaganda.
Seriously, any ‘report’ from a deeply partisan hack inside the Whitehouse, is simply worthless.
But the mainstream media aren’t partisan? You are FOS!
From the leftists who link CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, Washington Post, The Atlantic, NYT, VOX, and you use the words “partisan hack”? LOLOLOL! You POS!
The mainstream meida are biased.
Trump loyalists can keep repackaging the same old story and pretending its new revelations, but it’s the same old crap that has been tossed out of court multiple times.
Repetition doesn’t make it any more credible.
But as long as you keep saying it, then mindless people can attest that there is something in it, because people keep saying it.
The delusion loop.
Ok, you don’t believe any mainstream (er Leftist) media.
How bout NY Post or Wall Street Journal? No one thinks these are Leftist.
“Give it up, Mr. President for your sake and the nations.
..New York Post, a tabloid that promoted Donald J. Trump long before he went into politics, told the president to end his attempts to overturn the result of the 2020 presidential election.
The Monday front page showed a downcast president and the all-caps headline ‘Stop the Insanity.’ The publications website also featured the editorial, written by The Posts editorial board, at the top of the home page.
‘Mr. President, its time to end this dark charade,’ began the editorial.”
WSJ
“Trump Gives Schumer an Assist
The President writes a $2,000 check to make Democrats the majority.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-tariffs-deepened-the-d-c-swamp-11609198016?mod=opinion_lead_pos1
The point is the Courts and the Justice dept, have weighed in and looked at the available evidence and ruled against your guy and fraud claims over and over.
If you dont believe in the US justice system, the rule of law, you dont believe in democratic elections, you dont believe in government, then what’s left?
You dont believe in America. You may as well leave.
Justice system? They are too afraid to weigh in anything. It isn’t going to be resolved in the courts or Congress. Americans have to answer the question. What is liberty worth?
No, I’m not going to leave. You leave.
Yes Stephen, your guy didnt win an election. He didnt win in court. Oh well, your team didnt win.
Do what ever other American does when their team doesnt win, get over it, get on with your life.
Or not. Then go ahead and join the equivalent of ISIS.
“Justice system? They are too afraid to weigh in anything.”
The courts have weighed the evidence for fraud and thrown it out.
This story you and your ilk are telling themselves, that 50 court cases in different courts all failed because the judiciary is afraid of something:
It’s a mass delusion. And it is a brainless one. Sure, courts across America all as one, without exception, cower in the face of – what? Whatever handy BS story makes it seem plausible to you.
And it allows you all to keep thinking the ‘evidence’ that keeps getting recycled in your echo chamber just hasn’t been properly looked at.
Trump always said the election would be fraudulent unless he won. Losing just wasn’t a legitimate possibility for him. He doesn’t need any more evidence of fraud than Biden got more votes than him. He’s even argued this. What bottomless hubris.
And his followers wouldn’t be satisfied even if the evidence was weighed for 6 months in a congressional hearing and then found there was no fraud – they would still call it fraud.
You don’t need the courts, Stephen. It’s alreadly all verified for you.
You don’t even realize that your rationalizing is self-contradictory. You don’t realize you’ve told us the evidence is there, but yet to be weighed by a brave court, and that you’ve also told us it is “buried” and requires the courts to provide investigative powers to unearth it.
I have a question: https://ibb.co/cQyW1Hz
I wonder what the benefit is for Trump refusing to sign the spending bill?
He wants the bill to apportion $2000 relief checks instead of the $600 that has bi-partisan agreement, and after the White House told Republicans it would get presidential enbdorsement.
If he doesn’t sign it, no one will get the relief check, and unemployment benefits will stop for millions of Americans, including those forced out of work due to COVID and the economic downturn.
If we are meant to forget what he says and instead watch what he does, it will be interesting to see how conservatives will expalin a non-signing away.
Just as well we aren’t meant to take what he says seriously (I rarely have). Otherwise how else would a conservative explain their president wanting to increase relief checks to 330 per cent of what Republicans negotiated?
Makes you wonder if he really does work for Russia, or does he just want to destroy the economy for Biden?
Signed now, just had to golf first.
Trump has signed the bill.
Apparently he has put some red lines through it.
I’m not completely up on the protocol here, but I don’t believe that a president can make line by line vetos on bills. So we get to enjoy yet another me-me stunt from the president of the United States. Time is alsmost up on this reality TV show.
So you’re a Re-Trump-lican? I’m an Eisenhower or George H.W. Bush-type Republican. When Rick Perry was a Democrat supporting Al Gore’s presidential run in Texas, I was already a registered Republican.
Trump is no Republican. Heck, he’s not even a conservative and the only time you see him in church is when he’s campaigning for votes. Trump is for Trump, and Trump only.
I have witnessed the performance of many presidents. Trump is by far the worst, even worse than Nixon.
You can’t trust him. His entire adult life has been a series of betrayals.
But what do you expect from a guy who betrays his first wife with his second, his second wife with his third, and his pregnant third wife with a porn star? He will betray anyone, including partners, lenders, investors, employees and clients.
Worst of all is Trump’s betrayal of the American people during this pandemic. In his desperate attempt to maintain corporate profits and a sagging reelection campaign, he was willing to sacrifice untold numbers of Americans and their family members.
He has been useful in helping the GOP’s gains in congress and state houses, and many conservative judges have been appointed during his term. The GOP thanks him for his service but it is now time for him to go and, as he exits stage right, he should take with him all the kooks and conspiracy theory crazies that follow him blindly. Thank you for your service, good riddance now.
Vacationing Trump Says Afghanistan Better Than United States
I bet they have less whining after elections, anyway.
President Donald Trump, tweeting from the vacation he is taking after vetoing Defense spending and setting Congress scrambling over the Covid relief bill, said on the day after Christmas that the United States isn’t as good as war-torn, Taliban-infested Afghanistan.
Citing an anonymous source, Trump claimed that a “young military man” told him that democracy in Afghanistan is better run than it is here, where the mail is corrupt or whatever.
Make Afghanistan Great Again. Don’t even have to change the ball caps.
So, you’re an establishment Republican? I would never have guessed. No, Trump is the most consequential president of our lifetime. By the way, it is amazing what that bombing has knocked out in Tennessee, more than just ATT communications. Whoever did this knew it would do something.
Your comment history indicates that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed so I’m not surprised by your retort.
One thing the last four years has revealed though, is how the US needs to invest in education. There are simply too many marginally literate voters and that is not what the founding fathers had envisioned.
We can start with your education.
Meh! https://tinyurl.com/Boomer-with-a-computer
https://ibb.co/2yspdYG
Thanks Deep State for quickly figuring out what happened, who did it and keeping us safe.
Republics do not last. When has a Republic ever lasted more than a couple hundred years? Humankind cannot stand this much freedom. Freedom and liberty are abnormalities in the history of our planet. Monarchies seem to last the longest. Monarchies are leftist. China is not communistic but is more of a monarchy. There is a small ruling elite, royalty, and the citizenry exists by their leave. In a monarchy, the elite obtains their status by birth, force, and intimidation instead of a republic or capitalistic society where the elite competitively obtains their status.
Stephen Paul Anderson says:
“Republics do not last. When has a Republic ever lasted more than a couple hundred years?”
The Roman Republic lasted five centuries.
The Republic of Venice lasted for eleven centuries.
Rome wasn’t really a true Republic until Consuls were open to all society, which was 367BC. Before then, it was only open to the Patricians, who were the ruling elite. It was quasi-Republic. There have been very few and short true Republics. Rome from 367BC to 27BC and the United States from 1787 to early 1900s with the progressive movement.
“Monarchies are leftist. ”
Hilarious.
Yes, it’s too funny.
But at least we now know that for Stephen, leftist = oppressive.
So then, explain your reasoning, too funny.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum
The left-wing is about “freedom and ideals?” Really? The Nazis are the left. Are they about freedom and ideals? The Fascists are the left. Are they about freedom and ideals? The Marxists are the left. Are they about freedom and ideals? The Democrats are the party of slavery, the KKK, and Jim Crow. Are they about freedom and ideals? The Democrats are the party of planned parenthood? Is that the party of freedom and ideals? The left censors social media. Is that about freedom and ideals?
The Democrats are the ones who want to use the government to prosecute their political opponents. They want to limit speech, limit the right to bear arms, control the healthcare system, control the free market with their Green New Deal, weaken voting system rules and security, expand wealth re-distribution with themselves as the arbiters of the re-distribution system. There is nothing “free” about the Democrats and the left.
“So then, explain your reasoning, too funny.”
The political terms right and left originate in the French Revolution, and the right – the conservatives – were those disposed to support the monarchy. They didn’t want change. They supported tradition.
Conservatives accept inequality as inevitable, the left wants equality.
Which sounds more monarchical to you?
In socialism, the community as a whole owns the means of production and reaps the benefits.
That sound monarchical to you?
Marxism is inherently anti-monarchical, calling for a classless society.
Yes, your pronouncement on monarchy being leftist is a hilarious wrong note.
You’re too funny, Nate. A legitimate source? Like Wiki? You don’t have a brain? I don’t need an answer to that.
Leftists-strong, centralized, big government. Monarchists-strong, centralized big government. Check.
Leftists-small, ruling elite who pick the ruler. Monarchists-small ruling elite who pick the ruler. Check.
Leftists-government determines property rights and land distribution. Monarchists-government determines property rights and land distribution. Check.
Leftists-control freedoms like speech, religion, and citizenry rights. Monarchists-control freedoms like speech, religion, and citizenry rights. Check.
Leftists-only wants the government to own firearms. They provide all “security.” Monarchists-only wants the government to own firearms. They provide all “security.” Check.
Leftists-control of the economy and the printing of money. Monarchists-control of the economy and the printing of money. Check
You are confusing Marxism with Communism. Communism is an ideal. Marxism is a reality.
The left is utopianists. And, any means to achieve that utopia is fair game. It doesn’t matter if everyone agrees with them or not. The left is the masterminds. They know better than everyone else. They will use any means to achieve their utopianist vision, even cheating in an election, because their cause is superior and moral. They are egalitarians, focusing on equality of outcome. And, since they are the masterminds, they are the arbiters of what is fair and who gets what. The left works in secrecy, and darkness is their friend. If you don’t agree with them or like their outcome, you must be re-educated, as in the Michigan Attorney General’s case.
The right is much simpler. They believe nature and free markets should determine who gets what. They believe in limited government and minimal government involvement. They believe in transparency and openness and may the best man or woman win.
I don’t know of any Chinese leader practising a classless society. The CCP are the ruling elite in China. I don’t know of any Cuban leader practising a classless society. The communist party in Cuba is the ruling elite. They are your typical leftists. They say one thing but practise their arts in darkness.
As described by a leftist.
Rome, at most, lasted from 509BC to 27BC. Monarchies last for thousands of years. What is a monarchy? A small ruling elite selects a ruler and controls entry to their club, e.g., China. Monarchies call their ruler King or Czar (which is Russian for Caesar). China calls its ruler, Chairman. So, China evolved from one monarchy with an Emperor to another monarchy with a Chairman, but essentially the same laws and rules.
Do you know the origin of the fascist movement? I suspect not. Mussolini was a Marxist. He started the Fascist movement, a National Socialist movement, and he was a kindred spirit with Lenin, who described himself as a Marxist. Hitler emulated and imitated the Fascist movement when starting the Nazi movement in Germany. He was a kindred spirit of Mussolini. This is all in the historical record.
Mussolini was a member of the Communist Party in Italy. He was a follower of Lenin but became disenchanted with the Marxist movement when Marx’s predictions didn’t come true. He communicated with Lenin, and they each supported the other’s cause. Lenin congratulated Mussolini when he came into power. The Fascist party, which Mussolini started, was an offshoot of the Marxist movement and its Marxist roots. Fasci, which means essentially “a bundle of sticks,” was how Mussolini described his movement as different worker groups coming together.
Svante,
These leftist historians and sites like Wiki referenced the same historians who claimed the Nazis were “right-wing.” Nazi-National Socialists German Workers Party. That holocaust thing was bitch for leftists to explain after the war. So, they blamed it on the right.
How many millions did Mao murder? Lenin? Stalin? Hitler? Mussolini? Castro? Chavez? Kim? Khmer Rouge? British Kings? German Kings? Spanish Kings? Leftists, all.
The only American President who attempted a systematic eradication of the American Indian? Andrew Jackson, Democrat.
The only American President to imprison American Citizens because of their ethnicity? FDR, Democrat.
There was nothing socialist about the Nazis. Don’t mistake the name for the policies.
It might surprise you to learn that the right-wing major party in Australia – the equivalent of US Republicans – is called the Liberal party. The left are called the Labor party.
The jingoism of US polarised politicking is the voice of tribalism, shedding heat and no light.
Nazi Party Platform. Is it right or left?
1. We demand the unification of all Germans in the Greater Germany on the basis of the right of self-determination of peoples.
2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in respect to the other nations; abrogation of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain.
3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people, and colonization for our surplus population.
4. Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently no Jew can be a member of the race.
5. Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest, and must be under the authority of legislation for foreigners.
6. The right to determine matters concerning administration and law belongs only to the citizen. Therefore we demand that every public office, of any sort whatsoever, whether in the Reich, the county or municipality, be filled only by citizens. We combat the corrupting parliamentary economy, office-holding only according to party inclinations without consideration of character or abilities.
7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
8. Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since the 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.
9. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
10. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all Consequently we demand:
11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
13. We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
16. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
18. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, Schieber and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
19. We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
22. We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.
23. We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that: a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race: b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the German language: c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications, or any influence on them, and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.
24. We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: common utility precedes individual utility.
25. For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.
The truth’s a bitch, eh Barry?
All circular reasoning Stephen. You dont like Leftists. You believe they are bad. You list a bunch of people who did bad things. They must be Leftists.
Really stupid.
Monarchists are not Leftists. The original Leftists lopped off the heads of the Monarchs in France in 1789. In Russia in 1917 Leftists overthrew the Monarch and executed him and his family. Leftists forced the German Monarch out in 1918.
The idea that Monarchs are Leftist is idiotic.
You must be right, Nate. A leftist would never lop off another leftist’s head.
Isn’t it kind of like a monarchist would never lop off another monarchist’s head.
Stephen,
Why would anyone think Monarchists are Leftists? But please do show us a legitimate source that agrees with this.
I can scientifically predict that you won’t find one.
If not then, your definition is just your personal one.
You may as well be defining the color everyone calls RED to be GREEN for you.
You can do that, but if you want to communicate with other humans and be understood, you have to use the standard definitions of words. And you may have problems driving.
As far as the Nazis, one has to look at the policies they actually implemented.
For example, they didnt nationalize industries, they did the opposite. They were friendly and helpful to big corporations.
One way they were helpful to business was by banning Trade Unions, who were actual Leftists.
They were for social security. IOW the ways in which they were socialist were things that people today are happy to have.
But in all other ways they were much more like the Right.
They were Nationalist. Make Germany Great Again.
They were pro-military.
They were anti-Internationlism,
Anti Immigrant,
Anti-intellectual,
Anti-multi-culturalism.
Anti-minority groups.
All these things belong to the Right today.
And of course their strong Anti-semitism and Anti-brown people,
these belong today to the Alt-Right, the neo-Nazis, the white nationalists TODAY.
More importantly, these groups all consider themselves to be on the Right.
These groups are welcome at Unite the Right rallies, where marchers chant ‘Jews will not replace us’.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/how-big-business-bailed-out-nazis
That all is a lie, Nate; it is leftist propaganda. Richard Spencer is on youtube. He has several interviews where he describes his political views. Watch them if you dare. After you watch them, tell me, is Spencer right or left?
The right isn’t anti-immigrant, another myth perpetrated by the left. The right is for national sovereignty. For instance, we, like Australia, do not want criminals coming here and would rather have skilled workers who can contribute to the economy. We want merit-based immigration. Not immigration based upon proximity. Why do they get to jump the line? Unlike Nazis or Richard Spencer, we don’t block people based upon their “purity.” That is what leftists do.
We’re not anti-nationalism, but we don’t want some Australian interfering with our Bill of Rights. And, we don’t want a German telling us who we must allow inside.
Sorry, we’re not anti internationalism.
Before WWII, the Democrats, Nazis, and Fascists were kindred spirits and admired each other. The Nazis created the Nuremberg Laws in 1935. They used Democrat Jim Crow laws as their blueprint. They took the Jim Crow laws and substituted “Jew” for “Negroe,” word for word. Leftists have tried using class warfare, but it didn’t work. It didn’t work for Marx. So now you use race warfare. It has worked for a while, but its effect is diminishing because the leftist media’s effect is diminishing, so you’re resorting to brazen cheating in elections. Leftists don’t give a rat’s ass about minorities. You only care about them as long as you can use them to advance your agenda.
Stephen,
You want to us to pay close attention to all your ‘facts’ but you dismiss all of ours.
Not honest debate.
Pay attention to what I posted about monarchists and rebut that point by point.
Pay attention to what I posted about the Nazis, and rebut that point by point.
The parties have not been frozen in time. You cannot ignore history.
Southern Democrats were indeed racist since the Civil War. FDR was a Northern Left-leaning Democrat, and was not racist. Black voters embraced him.
Truman integrated the military. In response, Strom Thurmond became a 1948 candidate for president on the third party ticket of the Dixiecrats.
Then Civil Rights Acts of the 1960s was passed by Left-leaning Democrats and Republicans. After that all racists switched to the Republican party. Strom Thurmond switched in 1964. Nixon took advantage of that in 1968 with the Southern Strategy.
https://www.history.com/topics/1960s/ask-steve-southern-strategy-video
“Richard Spencer is on youtube”
Is he the elected leader of the Right? Why should I pay attention to him?
Explain the Unite the Right rallies and its participants who believe they are on the Right.
Here is the vote in the House for the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
The House of Representatives For-Against
Southern Democrats: 883 (991%)
Southern Republicans: 011 (0100%)
Northern Democrats: 1458 (955%)
Northern Republicans: 13624 (8515%)
As you can clearly see, it was not about party, but about region.
Dashes disappeared, Try again:
The House of Representatives For-Against
Southern Democrats: 8-83 (9-91%)
Southern Republicans: 0-11 (0-100%)
Northern Democrats: 145-8 (95=5%)
Northern Republicans: 136-24 (85-15%)
You don’t know much about our history except what you read on Wikipedia, do you? Democrat Senators filibustered the Civil Rights Act for 75 days. 80% of Republicans and less than 70% of Democrats in Congress supported the bill. The Democrats who did finally support the bill saw the writing on the wall, and so did Johnson, who stated, “I’ll have them niggers voting Democrat for 200 years.” So, your numbers were the numbers after the Democrats switched strategy and stopped their filibuster. Their strategy has always been to enslave blacks. First, as slaves and then today as welfare dependents. They enslaved them for their labor in the pre-Civil War South and their vote today. You, leftists, are good at rewriting history, aren’t you?
Unite the Right? Are you kidding me? Jason Kessler? He voted for Obama and was an OWS supporter before he voted for Trump. He’s a publicity hound. You’ll have a hard time convincing me, though, that someone who voted for Obama is a racist. However, Richard Spencer, who is a white nationalist leader, is a leftist.
Nate,
Point by point? You didn’t make any point. Nazis were anti-internationalism? WTF does that mean? Why did they start conquering Europe? Anti-immigrant? You don’t know history genius. Then please explain these Waffen SS units:
Armenische Legion (Armenian Wehrmacht Volunteer Formation)
Azerbaijani SS volunteer formations
British Free Corps
Den Norske Legion (Freiwilligen Legion Norwegen)
Estonian Legion
Finnish Volunteer Battalion of the Waffen-SS
Frikorps Danmark
Indische Legion
Kaminski Brigade
Latvian Legion
SS-Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger
Tatar Legion
Bretonische Waffenverband der SS
Al Gore’s father was one of the Senators who filibustered the Civil Rights Act, by the way.
“As you can clearly see, it was not about party, but about region.”
”
Northern Democrats: 145-8 (95=5%)”
“The Southern Strategy”
What about these Stephen?
The Dems who voted overwhelmingly for the Civil Rights Act were the Northern liberals. Liberal = Leftist, I think we can all agree.
These are the historical facts Stephen. Too bad if it wrecks your narrative.
You can’t help yourself can you? When the truth gets in the way, lie.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/12/17/fact-check-more-republicans-voted-for-the-civil-rights-act-as-a-percentage-than-democrats-did/
Racists switched to the Republican Party. That’s the Big Lie. There never was any switch. Dixiecrats remained Democrats to their death. Under Reagan, as the South became more conservative and Republican, it became less racist. This is well documented.
“Nazi Party Platform. Is it right or left?”
It’s overtly fascistic, which is a right wing ideology.
Eg, it’s racist – think KKK, proud boys and, you know, those people Trump says can be good people and who love Trump.
Democrats would not agree with negatively singling out a group because of their religion/cultural idenitity. Who do you think would be first to infringe on Muslims, Repubs or Dems? That’s right, your weak Dems wouldn’t step up, your strong Repubs would. And the Nazis were strong about the Jews. Jews were seen as not-citizens, and therefore could not hold positions of authority. That’s a right wing/fascist move. The status quo in the US used to be slavery, and it was conservatives (as in the keepers of the status quo) who didn’t want the status of black people to be revolutionized. Ironic, as it was often Republican governments (old school Republicans) who initiated some of the great civil advancements.
Nazis wanted to do away with the peace treaties so they could colonize other countries. Dems support UN and peace, Repubs are more manly, right? Trump wanted to and did pull out of international agreements.
Nazis wanted to expel people who were not Aryan from the nation. Is it Repubs or Dems who would be first to kick Muslims out? Wasn’t it a Republican president who restricted ingress specifically to Muslim nations?
As the Nazis did to Jews.
The Nazi manifesto demanded that “every citizen must… work both spiritually and physically.” Which party is more comfortable with blurring the separation between curch and state, do you think? Dems or Repubs?
Thew Nazis wanted the death penalty. Which party opposes the death penalty in the US?
Nationalizing the means of industry is certainly a socialist method, and some of the language would fit in the communist manifesto, but though this edict was nominally for the people, it was in fact to give the party supreme power to invade. The Nazis didn’t practise socialism. They practised racism and conquest. This is not socialist or leftist. It is imperialistic fascism.
Your mistake is to equate any form of oppression with leftism. Stalin was a communist. Genkis Khan was not. Mussolini started out a socialist, but renounced it when he advocated war, and the socialist party kicked him out. He turned to fascism instead.
Socialists routinely have denounced fascism.
A central pillar of fascism is the absolute primacy of the nation. This is more a Republican theme than Democrat, and it has also been a central theme for Donald Trump.
Socialists put the protection of people’s rights above the nation.
Fascists endorse private property – socialists emphasise social ownership.
The Dems are not socialists, and the Repubs are not fascists, though they’ve moved closer to it under Trump. Still a long ways off, though.
You left out the amendment at the end of that list.
“Since the NSDAP stands on the platform of private ownership [of land] it happens that the passage gratuitous expropriation concerns only the creation of legal opportunities to expropriate if necessary, land which has been illegally acquired or is not administered from the view-point of the national welfare. This is directed primarily against the Jewish land-speculation companies.”
Just found a pretty good article on the difference between fascism and socialism (as well as some similarities). They are at opposite ends of the political spectrum.
“The socialist paradigm is based on the assumption that private property and free market inevitably lead to social and economic inequality. As such, the state has the moral and social duty to intervene to protect workers’ rights and to ensure that wealth is equally and harmoniously distributed. Socialist societies prevent economic competition within the country and with other countries.
Despite the large degree of variance existing within the socialist world, all policies implemented by all variants of socialism are based on the pivotal economic and social goals mentioned earlier. The idea of nation, race, and superiority are absent from the socialist thinking.
Fascism, instead, does not call for social equality nor cares about the equal redistribution of wealth and income. A fascist economy aims at the strengthening of the nation, at the propagation of nationalistic principles, and at the enhancement of national superiority.
Even if fascist economic policies often lead to economic growth from which all segments of society can benefit – social equality is not among the goals of the fascist paradigm.”
http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/politics/ideology-politics/difference-between-socialism-and-fascism/
Stephen you are determined to remain ignorant, but facts are stubborn things.
“As you can clearly see, it was not about party, but about region.
Northern Democrats: 145-8 (95-5%)”
The people who were Northern Liberal, Leftist in the Democratic Party voted 95% for the Civil Rights Bill.
The Liberals, Leftists from either party were the Progressives. They wanted to PROGRESS on Civil Rights. From FDR to Eleanor Roosevelt
“. In 1939 during the era of racial segregation, the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR) refused to allow Marian Anderson to sing to an integrated audience in Constitution Hall in Washington, D.C. The incident placed Anderson in the spotlight of the international community on a level unusual for a classical musician. With the aid of First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt and her husband President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Anderson performed a critically acclaimed open-air concert on Easter Sunday, April 9, 1939, on the Lincoln Memorial steps in the capital.”
To Truman who integrated the Military.
Your narrative that it was the Leftists, the Liberals, the Progressives who were the racists is simply counter to the facts.
So sorry that doesnt fit with your narrative.
“Kessler is a supporter of neo-Nazism, far-right politicians and the alt-right.”
He supposedly voted for Obama? And Ronald Reagan used to be a Democrat. People change.
Missing the larger point that Unite the Right rallies attracted people who considered THEMSELVES to be on the Right. And many were members of neo-Nazi and White Supremacist organizations.
https://www.adl.org/blog/two-years-ago-they-marched-in-charlottesville-where-are-they-now
These are the Facts.
Again they do not fit your ignorant narrative.
” Nazis were Anti-immigrant? ”
Yes Stephen, it is right in your party platform.
“8. Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since the 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.”
“Nazis were anti-internationalism? WTF does that mean?”
Break Treaties, Defy League of Nations: Nazis did that.
“2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in respect to the other nations; abrogation of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain.”
Break Treaties, Oppose funding of, or policies of, UN, NATO, WTO, WHO, etc. Trump did that.
You two have just validated everything I’ve stated about leftists, and you don’t realize it. That is how sick and corrupt your brains are. Propaganda and lying are second nature to you. It is like breathing. The stupidity of your comments is almost breathtaking.
To try to argue that Fascism and Marxism are on two opposites of the spectrum is sophistry. Mussolini was a Marxist. Mussolini left Marxism when Marx’s predictions did not come true. But he was still left. Yes, Hitler and Mussolini used private industry for their war production. But that doesn’t mean that they did not control the private industry. The private industry did what Hitler and Mussolini wanted. This is a leftist argument that Hitler must have been right because he allowed companies to remain private. His leftist reign of terror ended long before he could nationalize industries.
You show your true lying leftists propagandist colors when you try to link Trump to the KKK. The Proud Boys, who are mostly a media creation, have nothing to do with the KKK. The KKK was the militant wing of the Democrat Party. This is in the historical record.
Socialists put the protection of the peoples’ rights above the nation? WTF does that mean? What a sick leftist you are.
Socialists put the protection of people’s rights above the nation. This is comical. You mean unless it is the Bill of Rights? What about babies’ rights? Are babies people?
Stephen, the persistent theme here is that you want to ignore history, ignore facts and go with your own beliefs.
“You show your true lying leftists propagandist colors when you try to link Trump to the KKK.”
History shows that the liberals, the progressives, the Left, was for advancing civil rights for black people.
Your theory the Left are the racists is False.
And again the neo-Nazi and White Supremacist movements TODAY think they are on the Right. Richard Spencer founded the Alt Right. And we agree. You are the outlier here.
“Mussolini was a Marxist” “The Fascists are the left.”
Ronald Reagan was a liberal Democrat. A big supporter of FDR and Truman.
According to your logic, he must have been a Leftist as President. Or should we look at his policies he actually had as President?
Also FYI Ronald Reagan was a pioneer of Gun Control as Governor of California. Apparently he was unhappy to see protesters with guns outside the statehouse.
“The Mulford Act was a 1967 California bill that repealed a law allowing public carrying of loaded firearms. Named after Republican assemblyman Don Mulford, and signed into law by then governor of California, Ronald Reagan, the bill was crafted with the goal of disarming members of the Black Panther Party who were lawfully conducting armed patrols of Oakland neighborhoods, in what would later be termed copwatching.[1][2] They garnered national attention after Black Panthers members, bearing arms, marched upon the California State Capitol to protest the bill.[3][4][5]
Both Republicans and Democrats in California supported increased gun control, as did the National Rifle Association of America, a major supporter of the act.[9] Governor Ronald Reagan, who was coincidentally present on the capitol lawn when the protesters arrived, later commented that he saw ‘no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons’ and that guns were a ‘ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will.’ In a later press conference, Reagan added that the Mulford Act ‘would work no hardship on the honest citizen'[1]”
This is the left. They are the enemy of freedom and liberty.
https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/12/michigan-attorney-general-says-sanctions-could-be-pursued-against-trump-lawyers.html
How do you prevent global trade with freedom and liberty? Walls all around?
You don’t prevent free global trade. Trade with China is anything but free, fair, and transparent.
So you need a strong government to suppress that trade.
Robbing millions of people of their vote is antithetical to freedom and liberty.
What, conservatives can take liberals to court but should not themselves be subject to the law? Don’t you want to let justice take its course?
Spoken like a true Nazi.
Well that makes zero sense. I’m calling for an equal playing field. Do right-wingers really think that the rules should be different for them?
The Murdoch controlled New York Post is another example of Stephen’s leftist media addressing Trump:
“Unfortunately, you’re obsessed with the next day, Jan. 6, when Congress will, in a pro forma action, certify the Electoral College vote. You have tweeted that, as long as Republicans have ’courage, they can overturn the results and give you four more years in office. In other words, you’re cheering for an undemocratic coup,” the piece slammed.
“You had every right to investigate the election,” the editorial added. “But let’s be clear: Those efforts have found nothing.”
Relative to a car wreck in the ditch on the right side of the road the only sensible place to steer is to the left.
You’re paranoid and a conspiracist, Slansly.
Fulton County, Georgia, had a voter registration rate of 109%. That is nine percent more than the eligible voters in the county.
Source please.
Judicial Watch. They have a website and the data.
Sounds like it is not only Trump who is not worth listening to, as you pointed out.
But they have web site!?
Nice cherry pick. They showed it is true in many red states as well, all over the country.
Has to do with out of date voter rolls. Bothing nefarious.
Nothing nefarious.
That is like saying all the buildings in the country have back doors. You cherry-picked that the swing states have back doors when they all have back doors. The leftists used this weakness and other weaknesses, in particular swing states, to steal the election. That is, they only needed the back doors in swing states.
In Georgia, at the State Farm Arena, the election workers shoo everyone out of the room and then begin pulling out ballots from under a table, counting them overnight without any observers. That is how a Republic dies, in darkness.
Stephenb, how many people were on the roll in Fulton County, and how many voted?
I think you’ll find that fewer voted than were actually eligible to vote, which is fewer again than the total electoral role.
Names get left on that shouldn’t be there because people who die don’t often remember to take their name off the list. People who move elsewhere don’t remember to take their name off the electoral roll, either.
It’s not a conspiracy, it’s ordinary life.
Again, you’re intentionally missing or skirting the point. Leftists used this as a means to cheat in Fulton County. Ordinarily, normal people don’t do that. Leftists do. Leftists are abnormal.
You didn’t really show how the dirty rolls couldn’t be used for cheating. The point isn’t Alaska or Colorado. The article’s point was that dirty voter rolls could be used to cheat in an election in select locations, which the Dems did. They used enough of the Ghost voters that they needed. The dirty voter rolls were used to harvest votes, to buy votes, to steal votes. It only had to be done in a few select locations like Fulton County; I believe the Dems used multiple ways to cheat. They obviously didn’t spend their time campaigning. They spent their time cheating. They control the election apparatus, even in Tennessee.
Calling them dirty rolls is rhetoric. The population of each county isn’t fixed, and updates don’t happen automatically. This is the case in every state and county with a large population in the US. It’s not devious, it’s the everyday imperfectness of record-keeping. I still get letters for people who don’t live in my apartment. I’ve been here 18 years.
Where is your proof that Democrats used the register in this way? The only instance I know of is a Trump voter who used his dead mother’s vote.
“Bartman also admitted to the detectives who questioned him that he did this to “further the campaign of Donald Trump” and cast the ballot for his deceased mother for President Trump…”
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pennsylvania-voter-fraud-republican-felony-charges-casting-ballot-for-dead-mother
Your belief is not proof. You should lean more on facts and proof than your beliefs, but it seems being a Trump supporter is all about feelings.
Again, I point to the 19 bellwether counties. I point to the lack of transparency and the bullying in Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. Believe me, if the officials in Pennsylvania said come on in and check out anything you want, then I’d have no problem with Biden. The people would have spoken. But that didn’t happen.
Again I point to the 14 bellweather counties that voted for Clinton in 2016.
Georgia was recounted twice. Give Michigan and Pennsylvania to Trump and Biden still won.
Poll observers were allowed to watch. When the judge asked the Trump lawyers whether there were any Republican poll watchers where they had said there weren’t, the Trump lawyers recanted.
The Trump campaign made a lot of noise outside the court and dropped much of it when they actually brought their cases. They also foreswore what they had said in press junkets. Giuliani himself said he wasn’t bringing a fraud case, even though he’d been saying to prior to heading into court.
He and people doing what he did are liars to the public, plain and simple.
When the evidence was examined, as it was, the cases were found to be lacking.
Trump was always going to claim fraud if he lost. It wasn’t a question of finding out, it was his pre-avowed strategy, on the record, made at his rallies many times.
And his followers are his sheeple.
“Again, youre intentionally missing or skirting the point. Leftists used this as a means to cheat in Fulton County. Ordinarily, normal people dont do that. Leftists do. Leftists are abnorma”
Just declaring that there was cheating doesnt make it so Stephen. Your hopes and dreams dont make it so.
We need to see the evidence.
Youve said before that it will take time to investigate.
Here is what happened in 2017 when Trump claimed massive fraud accounted for him losing the poular vote by 3 million.
He set up a voter fraud commission who spent months investigating. What did they find?
Nothing.
So I looked up Judicial Watch to see what numbers they were worried about.
They gave a figure of 102% for the number of registered voters comparted to actually eligible voters in New Jersey.
So I went looking for the actual numbers.
6.5 million registered voters.
4.5 million people actually voted in New Jersey last election.
Even if all the illegible registered voters voted Democrat in New Jersey, Biden still would have won.
So I checked the list at Judicial Watch a bit more.
Alaska – 111% registed voters compared to elligible.
Is Trump’s vistory now in doubt there?
Colorado – 102% registered voters compared to elligible.
That’s 4.2 million registered voters.
3.2 million votes were counted.
If all the illegible registered votes were cast Democrat and withdrawn from the total, Biden still would have won by over 100 000 votes.
But what happened is that 1 million fewer people than were on the electoral role actually voted.
So I look for a swing state.
Michigan: 105% registered voters compared to elligible.
8.13 million voters registered.
5.45 million people voted.
Now, if that 5% of the 8.13 million registered voters (about 406 000) voted nefariously, and all voted for Biden, then Trump would win if we took them out.
But 2 problems here.
2.7 million fewer people voted than are registered, far fewer than are elligible.
The 1 person nationwide who is currently facing charges for voter fraud using a dead person on the electoral roll (his mother) voted for Trump.
It’s not looking like the Dems pulled off a swifty because dead people haven’t yet been taken off the electoral roll.
Meant to put the above reply here.
Truman, like Lyndon Johnson, was an astute politician. He realized Democrats continued to need the black vote.
It is amazing to me how the concepts of liberty, freedom, and sovereignty elude leftists.
You bring up all these things that people like Eleanor Roosevelt and Truman did. You are making my point. My point was Democrats are astute politicians. They didn’t finally support the Civil Rights Acts because they weren’t racists; they were. They knew they needed black votes. Eleanor Roosevelt was a financial supporter of Mary Lasker and Margaret Sanger, both racists and eugenicists. They weren’t for the people over the nation.
Sure thing Stephen.
Leftist = Bad.
When a Leftist does good, progressive things, it must be for Bad reasons.
As for the Right, they only do good things for good reasons.
Racism was common in America in the early 20th century. Less common as the century wore on, but always there.
“Last night, I tell you, to watch that thing on television as I did,” Reagan said. “Yeah,” Nixon interjected. Reagan forged ahead with his complaint: “To see those, those monkeys from those African countries-damn them, theyre still uncomfortable wearing shoes!” Nixon gave a huge laugh.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-reagans-racist-conversation-richard-nixon/595102/
According to Caro, Robert Parker, Johnson’s sometime chauffer, described in his memoir Capitol Hill in Black and White a moment when Johnson asked Parker whether he’d prefer to be referred to by his name rather than “boy,” “nigger” or “chief.” When Parker said he would, Johnson grew angry and said, “As long as you are black, and youre gonna be black till the day you die, no ones gonna call you by your goddamn name. So no matter what you are called, nigger, you just let it roll off your back like water, and youll make it. Just pretend youre a goddamn piece of furniture….”
After Johnson’s death, Parker would reflect on the Johnson who championed the landmark civil rights bills that formally ended American apartheid, and write, “I loved that Lyndon Johnson.” Then he remembered the president who called him a nigger, and he wrote, “I hated that Lyndon Johnson.”
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism-msna305591
On another call, Nixon says he wants to fire his then-aide and lawyer, Leonard Garment, yelling “God damn his Jewish soul!” And in an Oval Office meeting, Nixon said that black people couldn’t run Jamaica. “Blacks can’t run it. Nowhere, and they won’t be able to for a hundred years, and maybe not for a thousand … Do you know, maybe one black country that’s well run?” What sort of appointees would Nixon prefer, you ask? “No Jews. We are adamant when I say no Jews.” The tapes were recorded between April 9 and July 12, 1973.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2013/08/21/nixon-tapes-reveal-anti-semitic-racist-comments
During World War II, Roosevelt signed an executive order that led hundreds of thousands of people of Japanese descent – including 80,000 U.S. citizens – to be incarcerated in concentration camps on the West Coast of the U.S. The U.S. was in a war against Japan at the time. It was also fighting Italy and Germany, but did not broadly incarcerate people in the U.S. of Italian and German descent…
In 1954, President Dwight D. Eisenhower told Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren white Southerners “are not bad people. All they are concerned about is to see that their sweet little girls are not required to sit in school alongside some big overgrown Negroes” while discussing the desegregation of schools.
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-racist-quotes-modern-us-presidents-780168
So, Trump is hardly alone with his racist schtick. It’s all pretty disappointing, but things are improving.
Socialists believe the free market leads to inequality….. LOL. Do you mean lazy, stupid, or unskilled people are discriminated against in the free market? Just damn.
You appear to have a one dimensional mind in a multi dimensional world!
Has “the left” or “the right” rulers been better for the US economy? The Great Depression? The 1987 October crash? The early 1990 down turn? The 2008 Great Recession? The 2020 employment crash?
That’s not an easy question to answer. Many historians believe that FDR brought us out of the depression with his big government programs. However, many Austrian economists and people I follow have written that FDR’s big government spending caused the economy to lag and be sluggish for a decade. The deflationary spiral ended in the first quarter of 1932, but we languished for a decade. It was WWII that energized the US economy. Not because of the spending but because we wiped out all of our economic competitors. If FDR had not given us Social Security and Johnson, The Great Society, the US might be a whole lot better off financially. It is leftist programs that have gotten us into this fix.
What are your economic success criteria? GDP growth? Employment? Stock market?
My criteria are how many regulations the President can eliminate. If he can eliminate impediments to the economy, then it usually grows. For instance, Reagan eliminated a lot of regulations and helped kick off one of the greatest economic booms in our history. Clinton wasn’t too bad either because he did not impede the economy. Obama’s administration was pretty restrictive, and we needed Trump.
What did you think about the recent Gallop poll on TRump?
” For instance, Reagan eliminated a lot of regulations and helped kick off one of the greatest economic booms in our history. Clinton wasnt too bad either because he did not impede the economy. ”
Clinton’s boom was bigger.
Many factors give rise to a boom. Low prices on imported oil. The Fed getting interest rates under control. Taxes cut while government spending increased on defense, meant more money flowing into the economy, but at the cost of blowing up the Debt.
Clinton’s boom happened after taxes raised to wrangle the debt and defense spending reduced. Arguably a more sustainable boom, then Reagan’s.
Another factor in Reagan’s boom that had nothing to do with him. Women massively entering the work force, meant many families became upper middle class.
“For instance, Reagan eliminated a lot of regulations and helped kick off one of the greatest economic booms in our history.”
Well, it did not last very long, did it – stock market collapse in 1987 and the subsequent recession starting 1990. As a result the voters turned away from his VP George 1 Bush to Clinton in 1992. A wise choice for those who value economic growth with GDP average growth of 3.56% under Clinton, beating Reagan’s 3.24% handily.
Stephen, for your benefit I made a comparison of US GDP growth and unemployment rate change under republican and democratic presidents since 1930.The answer is abundantly clear; highest GDP growth rate and most rapid reduction in unemployment rates under the Dems – for all periods including 1980-2020. And Obama beats Trump on both criteria.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1hiQf0K7rIiONFLDph1UBz3azzAXPTp-yFwN_pFbzpxo/edit?usp=sharing
Source:
https://www.thebalance.com/unemployment-rate-by-year-3305506
The Fascist Manifesto, right or left?
Politically, the Manifesto calls for:
Universal suffrage with a lowered voting age to 18 years, and voting and electoral office eligibility for all ages 25 and up;
Proportional representation on a regional basis;
Voting for women (which was then opposed by most other European nations);
Representation at government level of newly created national councils by economic sector;
The abolition of the Italian Senate (at the time, the Senate, as the upper house of parliament, was by process elected by the wealthier citizens, but were in reality direct appointments by the king. It has been described as a sort of extended council of the crown);
The formation of a national council of experts for labor, for industry, for transportation, for the public health, for communications, etc. Selections to be made of professionals or of tradesmen with legislative powers, and elected directly to a general commission with ministerial powers.
In labor and social policy, the Manifesto calls for:
The quick enactment of a law of the state that sanctions an eight-hour workday for all workers;
A minimum wage;
The participation of workers’ representatives in the functions of industry commissions;
To show the same confidence in the labor unions (that prove to be technically and morally worthy) as is given to industry executives or public servants;
Reorganization of the railways and the transport sector;
Revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance;
Reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55.
In military affairs, the Manifesto advocates:
Creation of a short-service national militia with specifically defensive responsibilities;
Armaments factories are to be nationalized;
A peaceful but competitive foreign policy.
In finance, the Manifesto advocates:
A strong progressive tax on capital (envisaging a “partial expropriation” of concentrated wealth);
The seizure of all the possessions of the religious congregations and the abolition of all the bishoprics, which constitute an enormous liability on the Nation and on the privileges of the poor;
Revision of all contracts for military provisions;
The revision of all military contracts and the seizure of 85 percent of the profits therein.
As private ownership remains, it isn’t socialist. However, there are more items listed on the wiki page you seem to be copy/pasting, as well as attributes of fascism – which is what Mussolini’s movement came to express in short order.
I’ve copied that list, and bolded those attributes I see as right wing, and italicised those I see as left wing.
Core tenets
Nationalism
Imperialism
Militarism
Dictatorship
Anti-communism
Direct action
Social interventionism
Social order
Indoctrination
Proletarian nation
Propaganda
Heroism
Racism
Economic interventionism
Statolatry
New Man
Reactionary modernism
Fascism allows for private ownership, so it isn’t socialist or communist. It is content with social inequality, so isn’t leftist. Fascism can embrace imperialism (as in conquest) and dictatorship, so it isn’t like traditional US Republicanism.
The closest thing I’ve seen to fascism in the US is Trump with his racist rhetoric, the cult of him against the instruments of democracy, his populism, and his ‘America First’ stance which has been rubbishing international relations over the last 4 years.
If you put the political spectrum on a dial, shaped like a semicircle, to the far left of the dial (9 o’clock position), what do you have? To the far right of the dial (3 o’clock position), what do you have?
You leftists work really hard to disavow your true nature and use propaganda and lies to ascribe that nature to your opponents (enemies).
Yes, the Far Left and the Far Right are both Authoritarian.
Now Stephen is actually paying attention to some facts.
Left-leaning and Right-leaning countries are not Authoritarian.
Europe has a dozen stable Left-leaning countries who are not Authoritarian.
Thus Left is NOT EQUIVALENT to Authoritarian as you have claimed.
But Far Left like North Korea is Authoritarian, and Far Right countries like many Latin American countries supported by us during the cold-war, Panama, Chile, Argentina, Cuba(pre 1960) were also Authoritarian.
You get a zero on the exam. I’ll wait for Barry’s response.
Well, no, to be fair, you get a 50 because the far left is Authoritarian dictatorships like North Korea. I assumed you meant at the 9 o’clock position and give you a 50. That’s still an F.
Aha, that may be why Kim and Trump ‘…fell in love’ – authoritarian on the left likes authoritarian on the right:
Letter from Kim to Trump:
25 December 2018
Your Excellency,
It has been 200 days since the historic DPRK-US summit in Singapore this past June, and the year is now almost coming to an end. Even now I cannot forget that moment of history when I firmly held Your Excellency’s hand at that beautiful and sacred location as the whole world watched with great interest and hope to relive the honor of that day. As I mentioned at that time, I feel very honored to have established an excellent relationship with a person such as Your Excellency.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/transcripts-kim-jong-un-letters-trump/index.html
No, incorrect answer. You do get a zero. Maybe Barry will do better.
Be a good teacher and tell me where and why I got points off.
Let’s wait until all students answer. I think Barry is avoiding the question. But, in the meantime, to help you out, let’s try a couple of simple questions. What is the opposite of dark? What is the opposite of up?
What is the opposite of in? What is the opposite of hot?
No work no credit for teach..
Dark/Light. Yes we know all about Darth Vader. You know thats fiction right?
What do you think a Far Right government would be?
Not authoritarian?
The extreme left is anti-capitalist and revolutionary, wanting to overthrow the (economic) class system and replace it with evenly distributed wealth.
The extreme right is anti-communist, highly nationalistic, and prone to identifying and rejecting (demonising) certain groups that are too different.
This is a global outlook, therefore quite general. If it was in the US, I would point to the Black Panthers or ANTIFA on the far left, and the Proud Boys and the KKK on the right.
The KKK is the militant wing of the Democrat Party. The far left is definitely anti-capitalist. There are a lot more adjectives that would describe the far left. Big Government (Taxes, Regulations, etc.) Authoritarian, Slavery, Government Media Propaganda, Anti Liberties (Speech, Religion, Arms, Fair Trial, etc.), Summary Imprisonment, etc. What is the opposite of all this?
“The KKK is the militant wing of the Democrat Party.”
Hilarious…
In Stephen’s world we’re stuck forever in 1920.
The KKK are a white supremacist group. You can’t get much further away from the Democratic party.
David Duke endorsed Donald Trump, as has The Crusader, a KKK publication.
Some of your views are at wild odds with reality, Stephen.
Clearly Mussolini did not follow his manifesto on democracy, on militarism, and many other elements.
“after removing all political opposition through his secret police and outlawing labor strikes,[9] Mussolini and his followers consolidated power through a series of laws that transformed the nation into a one-party dictatorship. Within five years, Mussolini had established dictatorial authority by both legal and illegal means and aspired to create a totalitarian state.”
Leftists never do.
Than the manifesto you posted is worthless, isnt it?
Argentina becomes the largest Latin American country to legalize abortion, and the leftists cheer.
Yes, reproductive right for the individuals is no good. Reproduction should definitively be controlled by the government.
Nice leftist response.
He’s got a valid point. Obviously it sailed over your head.
In addition, it is the minority imposing their religious views on everyone else.
Are you also against contraception?
How do anti-abortion laws interfere with reproduction? It seems abortion interferes with reproduction. Does it not?
What part of “controlled by the government.” did you miss Stephen?
Again, how do anti-abortion laws interfere with reproduction?
No one said they did, Stephen. You shpould get better at reading.
Meanwhile, you want government to force everyone to conform to what some people want regarding abortion. Got it.
As someone who has been through an abortion, there is nothing to cheer about, and trying to score political points off it is pretty sick, IMO.
Put the world on a left/right spectrum and you will find democrats and republicans right next to each other.
Republicans have lost before, it’s not the end of the world Stephen.
Zero.
It looks like Trump won Georgia.
China is paying the Taliban to kill US troops.
Trump won Georgia? What are you smoking now?
Data experts testified before the Georgia Senate committee that 17640 votes were switched from Trump to Biden.
I have to assume this is on facebook or maybe youtube, because I searched for that number with the terms “georgia votes trump biden” added and got zero hits.
Link us up, Stephen.
Yep, Stephen is definitely living on an alternative planet. I think its in a galaxy far far away, where there are only Dark and Light forces.
This republican gave a very good description of Stephen:
Former Secretary of Defense William Cohen, a Republican, said that Trump has a pathological desire for power, and those who insist on supporting him are diabolical.
Maybe its time for a new party, Cohen said. One that abides by the rule of law, abides by balanced budget opportunities, fiscal responsibility, but also faithful to the people of this country who vote to elect them.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/william-cohen-maybe-its-time-for-a-new-party_n_5fef832bc5b61817a5367f5c
And this republican describes Stephen’s Dear Leader very precisely!
Really worth listening to!
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/05/03/ted-cruz-donald-trump-rant-full-sot.cnn/video/playlists/donald-trump-vs-ted-cruz/
Stephen, left and right in politics are largely about economic models and social agenda.
On most charts of political persuasion, authoritarian and non-authoritarian are along the y axis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Political_Compass_yellow_LibRight.svg
Your problem is that you only see half of the political spectrum.
No, it isn’t my problem. The problem is you don’t understand the right or conservatives. You only believe the propaganda. The far-right is the opposite of the far left. The far-right is free-market, limited government, individual rights, anti-authoritarian, pro liberties, free press, free religion, etc. The farthest to the right would be almost lawless, with no governmentthe opposite of the far left.
You frame an issue like abortion as Conservatives wanting to “control” women. That’s a leftist argument. Conservatives are pro-individual rights, including babies’ rights.
I have another question. In 1787, when the Constitution was ratified, where would you put America on the political spectrum?
Pro-Choice? What about the baby’s future choices?
“The far-right is free-market, limited government, individual rights, anti-authoritarian, pro liberties, free press, free religion, etc. The farthest to the right would be almost lawless, with no government the opposite of the far left.”
You forgot Nationalistic, Pro-Military, Pro traditional religious values, anti-Communist.
Those qualities have lead to many far-right military dictatorships.
such as Franco in Spain. As you may recall he fought a Civil War with Leftists, who were socialist/communist.
Or Chan Kai Shek, who fought the Left (Communists) in China, supported by us, then formed a dictatorship in Taiwan.
It simply makes no sense for someone on the Right like Franco or Chiang Kai Shek, who both fought Communists, to suddenly become Far Left wing when they became dictators.
Franco and Chiang Kai-Shek were both leftist dictators. You have limited thinking or a polluted brain due to your leftist ideology. Leftists believe in a strong central government, supreme authority, limited rights, etc., like Kai-Shek and Franco. You don’t want to accept who you are and what leftism is. Nationalism has nothing to do with which side of the aisle you’re on. Hitler was a leftist and Nationalist. Mussolini was a leftist and Nationalist. George Washington was a Nationalist. Conservatives like me believe in sovereignty like our Founders, George Washington.
“Franco and Chiang Kai-Shek were both leftist dictators.”
Sure thing, Stephen. They fought their Civil Wars against the Left. Then just when they took Power, THEY BECAME the Left.
Sure that could work…ha ha ha!
Just show us some evidence.
I can scientifically predict that you don’t have any.
“The problem is you don’t understand the right or conservatives.”
On the contrary, what you have described…
“The far-right is free-market, limited government, individual rights, anti-authoritarian, pro liberties, free press, free religion”
Is not the far right. Limited government, individual rights and free religion are staples of the Republican party. Throw in 2nd amendment and you’re most of the way to the tradiational Republican party platforms (of the late 20th century to 2016).
As I said, you don’t see half the political spectrum. You only see the moderate right and the extrteme, authoritarian left.
You don’t see the moderate left or the extreme right.
You have a binary view. It’s just too limited to grapple with the whole picture.
Name one far-right authoritarian?
The political spectrum is binary. You leftists try to hide who you are. Most governments are of the left. Authoritarians (Franco, Kai-Shek), Monarchists, Marxists, Nazis, Fascists, Socialists are all on the left. They all believe in strong central government, absolute control, limited freedoms, economic control, control of the education system, etc. The left doesn’t want to defund the police. They want to defund the police they can’t control. They will replace the police with their Antifa and BLM blackshirts just like the Nazis and Fascists did. There are very few of us conservatives. There are no conservative governments anywhere in the world. When the US existed under the Articles of Confederation, it was right. Most of the history of the World is left. Liberty is a fleeting thing.
“The political spectrum is binary.”
See, you’ve just contradicted yourself within the space of 3 words.
Spectrum = used to classify something in terms of its position on a scale between two extreme points
Binary = relating to, composed of, or involving two things
Yes, it is clear you have a binary view of politics.
That’s nobody’s fault but your own. You are a grown up, and can’t blame anyone else for having such a simplistic view.
We’ve already named far-right authoritarians. We can even link to multiple web pages doing the same. Of course, none of these will penetrate the mind of an extreme partisan such as yourself.
“You leftists try to hide who you are”
Here’s who I am, politically, bub.
Economy – mixed – regulated capitalism
Socially progressive
Think political correctness has gone too far
Do not want any more government intrusion into my life or anyone else’s – I’d give up a bit of security for more privacy. I’d like CCCTV cameras removed from streets and public spaces
Reject dictatorships, tyrannies, despotic rule etc. Tolerate monarchy if the role is largely ceremonial, but prefer Republic. Have voted to change my country from Commonwealth to republic (vote didn’t carry)
Prefer Westminster style of government
Separation of church and state – happy for people to worship their faith as long as they don’t push their agenda into the political sphere – that goes equally for Muslims, Christians, Jews etc – likewise, state cannot prohibit the practising of faith, as long as it doesn’t infringe on other people’s freedoms
Believe in individual liberty where that does not infringe on the physical health and safety of others
Believe in the rule of law, and to have no more laws than absoutely necessary
Where do I fit on your political spectrum, Stephen?
What about firearms? You Aussies F’ed up there.
That’s your analysis of where I fit on the political spectrum.
Yes, a right wing government did a gun buy back. I put an old firearm I had and never used in at the police station and got a few bucks for it.
Our counjtry is doing fine, thanks. Our murder rate is something the US can dream of.
The Ozzie policy wouldn’t work in the US. That horse has truly bolted, never mind the 2nd amendment and gun fetishism. You guys will have to figure it out among yourselves. I assume Americans aren’t inherently murderous, so good luck figuring out how to kill each other a lot less.
“They will replace the police with their Antifa and BLM blackshirts just like the Nazis and Fascists did.”
I see. The Nazis replaced police with Anti-Fascists and Black rights supporters??!!
Are you unable to see the contradictions you’ve created for yourself?
Antifa isn’t anti-fascists. They are the fascists. You keep getting caught in paradoxes.
The Nazis were leftists. The fascists were leftists. And they both wore black shirts.
Actually Brown shirts, but nevermind.
Your posts are starting to sound strangely like Orwellian newspeak.
“Lin Wood
@LLinWood
Jan 1
If Pence is arrested, @SecPompeo will save the election. Pence will be in jail awaiting trial for treason. He will face execution by firing squad. He is a coward & will sing like a bird & confess ALL.”
These are the kind of stand-up guys Stephen admires.
Wow. The guy is clearly unhinged.
“At the end of December 2020, Wood launched a series of baseless allegations: he implied that Chief Justice John Roberts was involved in the death of Justice Antonin Scalia, suggested that Roberts was a child trafficker, declared that the deceased Jeffrey Epstein was actually alive, and that Epstein could reveal the truth about Roberts.”
Not unhinged at all, brilliant jurist. He understands our Republic’s dire situation.
For most of the history of the world, people have lived with limited freedoms under tyranny. The United States has been an aberration. In 1787 we were dead center or slightly right, at 12 or 1 o’clock government. We have drifted left. Maybe at 1130 o’clock now. Biden wants to take us to 11 o’clock. You guys are at 1030. That’s too far left for America.
Uh… in 1787 slavery was legal and practised in the US. It is sanctioned in the 1787 Constitution, which differentiates between free people and others for population counts, forbids congress from outlawing the slave trade, and mandates that runaway slaves should be returned to their masters.
And you think this is centrist or slightly to the right, Stephen?
Are you arguing we were left because we allowed slavery? Possible. That only strengthens my argument that most governments are left. I did not say it was a perfect system. Please try to think about Revolutionary War-era people as many thought of Africans as sub-human or non-human. Slaves were traded all over the world at the time, not only in America. Also, the founders made provisions in the Constitution to correct these flaws, and the three-fifths was a compromise to weaken the institution of slavery.
“Are you arguing we were left because we allowed slavery?”
No, what ever gave you that idea? I mentioned right, not left.
Accepting your premise that the US was dead center or to the right when the constitution was drawn up, I’m asking if slavery is a right-wing value, because it ceretainly isn’t a left-wing one.
Ask any Democrat today what they think of slavery and racism. The response will be veryh clear, no pussy-footing around. “Completely unacceptable” will be the mildest reply.
Ask some Republicans what they think of racism against blacks, and they’ll tell you there isn’t any.
They resemble ol’ time Southerners in that way.
By the way 3 fifths was a compromise from zero, to number the slaves for electoral purposes. It was the Southerners who wanted them counted, so that they would have more electors in government. The North didn’t want to give those slave owners the power, and would have preferred not to count the indentured.
No one comes off well in that calculation.
No, he is unhinged, Stephen. He is publicly endorsing a firing squad execute the vice president of the United States who has performed his constitutional duties.
I mean, a firing squad. While the rest is fruit-loop, this is batshit crazy.
He means after he gets a fair trial.
Yeah, I can read. That doesn’t mitigate the firing squad comment one tiny little bit. It’s off the charts nuts.
“Not unhinged at all, brilliant jurist.”
Trump’s actual attorney, Jenna Ellis, has rejected Wood’s wacky tweets. Remains to be seen if the White House will comment on this outrageous, and potentially dangerous nonsense.
No, Wood, like many of us, have just about had it with these deep state politicians who have no regard for our beloved Republic.
That’s the point Trump’s actual attorney was making about Wood.
“Not unhinged at all,”
OK Stephen, right there, youve just lost all remaining credibility as a person of sound judgement.
You’re caught in an intellectual dilemma. How can someone who has no credibility credibly accuse someone else of having no credibility with any credibility?—what a conundrum.
Have you ever noticed only the left labels speech as dangerous? However, destroying property and murdering people isn’t dangerous.
Does the right think it’s fine to incite people to violence in the streets?
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/gohmert-walks-back-comment-street-violence-lawsuit-loss_n_5ff10875c5b61817a536faf1
Of course some speech is dangerous, you schmuck. That observation doesn’t depend on whether you arer left or right. Nor does that observation abrogate free speech.
When the speech comes from people in charge or in authority, it has been shown it can lead, historically, to violence. In Rawanda, speech by authorities, led to genocide. In Germany, repeated speech by authorities, propaganda, led to violence against the Jews by ordinary citizens. See Kristallnacht.
But hey, if its violence against the ‘Left’ you may be ok with it..
I don’t remember you calling Van Jones or Cohen bat shit crazy for calling President Trump treasonous?
So how does Trump’s telephone call to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger published by Washington Post today fit into your description of the non-authoritarian right headed by Trump?
You obviously don’t understand the difference between an Authoritarian and a leader. An authoritarian would have sent the Gestapo. An authoritarian uses government agencies like the FBI to take out a FISA warrant on their opponents so they can illegally surveil them.
J.H. Pulitzer’s testimony to the Georgia committee on kinematic artifact detection is pretty compelling. This guy is the type of forensic examiner needed in every state under question. The problem the Democrats have is the geeks will find out. If they find out, Biden is in trouble. There is no such thing as a perfect crime.
If evidence goes missing, Biden is in trouble.
“Authoritarianism is a form of government characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of a strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in the rule of law, separation of powers, and DEMOCRATIC voting” Sounds like trumpisme to me!
An authoritarian uses government agencies like…yes and Trump has put his loyal supporters in key positions in these agencies and use them to go after his opponents. Even AG Barr was fired because he (finally) decided not to fight the constitution by supporting Trump’s coup attempt.
No, FBI investigated the russian interference in the 2016 election – totally reasonable to do. Do you remember Trump’s campaign leader Manafort helping the russian with voter data? May be you also remember Cambridge Analytica Ltd?
It is amazing that you, claiming that you are a conservative and republican, are supporting Trump in his attempt to break the US democracy! He is reminding me more and more about the way Putin behaves. Fortunately, he is not as cunning as Putin, probably because he lacks the KGB training.
They lied to the FISA court to obtain the warrant. There was no evidence of Russian conspiracy. Did you read Horowitz’s report? Wow, Trump committed the despicable crime of putting loyal supporters in key positions. Only an authoritarian would do that.
The only reason for the Russian conspiracy allegations was to cover up their crimes. Same thing with the impeachment. It was to cover up Biden’s crimes in Ukraine.
You have shown your colors, Stephen! You support a wannabe dictator! Even an incompetent wannabe dictator! Disgusting! Any further discussion is fruitless and of no interest to me.
“An authoritarian uses government agencies like the FBI to take out a FISA warrant”
Authoritarians don’t need warrants or judges, dimwit!
But in right-wing media every speeding ticket gets amplified into a serious felony. And every govt agency doing their job becomes the Gestapo.
Trump to the Georgia Republican Secretary of State.
“So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state.”
Just find that many votes for me from somewhere and I won’t have to sue you, is the message from Trump.
“It’s more illegal for you than it is for them. Because you know what they did, and you’re not reporting it. That’s it, you know, that’s a criminal. Thats a criminal offense. And you know you can’t let that happen. That’s, thats a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyers. That’s a big risk.”
This sums it up nicely. He doesn’t care how the votes are got, he just wants them got, and he’s pushing the fraud story hard and threatening to sue if the Sec of State doesn’t comply.
The Republican Sec of State, who has nothing to gain by defying Trump, has repeatedly said that the election was sound.
There have been THREE COUNTS of the votes in Georgia.
The Trumpists are sickeningly blind to the rort Trump is trying to pull, abetted by some cynical Republicans who are going through this charade knowing full well it is pointless.
The Republican party has truly damned itself. A disgusting display of undemocratic behaviour, for which they should be well and truly sent to the political wasteleands until they sort themselves out. Absolutely disgraceful. Those Republicans aligned with this post-election fiasco do not deserve to sit in government.
Then, they shouldn’t be opposed to a forensic audit.
You claim, like most leftists, that you’re not a leftist. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has duck DNA, it’s a duck.
Bub.
“Then, they shouldn’t be opposed to a forensic audit.”
Don’t be ridiculous. You think if a forensic analysis confirmed the results Trump would be satisfied? He’d just the call the analysis a fraud.
Because he is not remotely interested in the truth, all he wants is to change the results of the election. No probe, no analysis, nothiong that doesn’t give him the result he wants will ever be good enough.
So quit the BS. You wouldn’t accept a forensic analysis that didn’t giove Trump the win.
It’s not about whether Trump would be satisfied. This has never been about Trump. If the audit isn’t done or if the evidence disappears, the Democrats are in trouble.
I mean come on, you’ve had a double recount in Georgia, 60 lawsuits, half of which the evidence was examined and found to be lacking.
Nothing is going to satisfy you people except an overturn of the election result.
Be honest about it at least.
Stephen,
Read the transcript of the call. Its illuminating.
Trump goes thru all the conspiracies, and Raffensberger explains all the investigation that was done, and how each theory was proven to be wrong.
For example, Trump brings up the Dominion machines,
“RAFFENSPERGER: we did a hand re-tally, a 1 percent re-tally of all the ballots and compared that to what the machine said. And it came up with virtually the same result. Then we did the recount. Weve got virtually the same result. So I, I guess we could probably take that off the table. I dont think theres an issue about that.”
Trump brings up 5000 dead people voted.
“RAFFENSPERGER: But they I guess, theres a person named Mr. Brainard that came to these meetings and presented data, and he said that there was dead people, I believe it was upward of 5,000. The actual number were two. Two. Two people that were dead that voted. And so, thats wrong, that was two.”
Trump brought up the video.
“RAFFENSPERGER: Youre talking about the State Farm video. And I think its extremely unfortunate that Rudy Giuliani or his people, they sliced and diced that video and took it out of context. So the next day, we brought in WSB-TV, and we let them show, see the full run of tape, and what youll see, the events that transpired are nowhere near what was, what was projected by, you know ”
And on and on it goes..
There’s nothing there. There’s no legs. So Sorry. Obfuscation doesn’t work anymore.
The geeks are looking at the data, and there’s nothing the Democrats can do about it. If the evidence disappears, TROUBLE!
I can see you too are left speechless.
When youve got no answer what can you do?
Just keep on believin.
“TRUMP Now, do you think its possible that they shredded ballots in Fulton County? Because thats what the rumor is. And also that Dominion took out machines. That Dominion is really moving fast to get rid of their, uh, machinery.
Do you know anything about that? Because thats illegal, right?
GERMANY: This is Ryan Germany. No, Dominion has not moved any machinery out of Fulton County.
TRUMP: But have they moved the inner parts of the machines and replaced them with other parts?
GERMANY: No.
TRUMP: Are you sure, Ryan?
GERMANY: Im sure. Im sure, Mr. President.”
President TRUMP with access to the best Intelligence available in the world, seems to be relying on RUMORS.
“TRUMP So what are we going to do here, folks? I only need 11,000 votes. Fellas, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break.”
“TRUMP And youre going to find that they are which is totally illegal, it is more illegal for you than it is for them, because you know what they did, and youre not reporting it. Thats a criminal, thats a criminal offense. And you cant let that happen. Thats a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And thats a big risk. But they are shredding ballots, in my opinion, based on what Ive heard. And they are removing machinery, and theyre moving it as fast as they can, both of which are criminal finds. And you cant let it happen, and you are letting it happen. You know, I mean, Im notifying you that youre letting it happen. So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state.”
So here he is ‘notifying’ Raffensberger that he and his people are criminally letting a crime happen, based on what he had earlier admitted were nothing but RUMORS.
And thus all he wants is for Raffensberger to ‘find’ just the votes he needs to ‘win’.
He is quite a role model for all aspiring third-world dictators.
Trump’s speech tonight is outstanding, GREAT PRESIDENT! Biden is such a ditz. Harris is waiting in the wings, and she’s a bigger ditz.
More men for your list of leftists:
Ashton Carter, Dick Cheney, William Cohen, Mark Esper, Robert Gates, Chuck Hagel, James Mattis, Leon Panetta, William Perry and Donald Rumsfeld.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2021/01/03/former-defense-secretaries-disavow-military-involvement-in-settling-election-disputes/
The spectacle! Republicans eating Republicans!
“We’re eight weeks from the election, and we still don’t have verifiable, tangible support for the crimes that everyone knows were committed — that is, defrauding other citizens who voted with fraudulent votes,” Lou Dobbs said.
“We know that’s the case in Nevada, we know it’s the case in Pennsylvania and a number of other states, but we have had a devil of a time finding actual proof. Why?”
I agree Lou. Its been getting harder for Fact-driven people to keep believin in this scenario, without, ya know, FACTS.
But no matter, you still got Stephen.
Lou isn’t implying there isn’t any evidence. He wants to know why it has taken so long actually to start examining the evidence.
And, really, part of the problem is the legislatures haven’t been in secession, and the leftist governors refused to recall them. They want Biden “by any means necessary.”
Sorry, session.
BS. he never says anything about ‘start examining’.
He said we ‘don’t have’
He said we are not ‘finding actual proof’
People have been screaming fraud for 2 months.
Two months with lots of auditing, hand recounting, evidence examination in courts.
That should bother anyone who care about facts and evidence before coming to the very consequential conclusion that the electoral votes need to be contested.
The Rep congressmen keep saying that the public doesnt trust the results, and that is why they need to contest the results, and keep looking for the fraud.
Why dont they trust the results?
Because they have been TOLD that they shouldnt trust the results by their leaders.
As mentioned earlier, the German people were TOLD that the Jews were bad and doing bad things. And sure enough, the public responded by attacking the Jews and destroying their businesses.
They were TOLD for weeks that Poland was doing horrible things, and sure enough the public supported the invasion of Poland.
IOW, when you have very effective propaganda, who needs facts!
No maroon. When you lack transparency and 18 of 19 bellwether counties going for Trump, we know there is a problem with the election. The data geeks are going to examine it. They’ve already startedbad news for the Democrats.
That aint evidence of fraud, just the vagaries of voting.
Why don’t you repeat what Lou said tonight? Doesn’t it fit your propagandist narrative?
Hannity wants to know why anonymous whistleblowers have credibility but actual witnesses do not?
Anonymous whistleblowers aren’t automatically believed. They help initiate court cases or investigations if their testimony is credible.
These witnesses claims have been tested in court.
When you read the affadavits, a huge number are from people who heard someone else say something.
The first-hand witnesses who had their testimony examined were found to be lacking.
That’s how it goes. You’ve been told there is fraud by people who are fishing for proof, yet you believe there is fraud with no proof. Trump’s recent phone transcripts make it clear he is fishing for votes. “I just need to find…”
It’s sad how desperate it has become. It’s sadder the utter conviction a lot of conservatives have of electoral fraud because of the propaganda echo chamber that has resounded since well before the election. Remember Trump saying it would be a fraud if he lost? He was always going to say that no matter what, and true to his style, that is what he hammered over and over.
The true villains are the spineless Republicans who know better but echoed the mantra to keep Trump supporters onside.
They were quite right about Trump supporters ditching them if they didn’t march in step with dear leader. your own remarks here, Stephen have demonstrated that. But even if you weren’t here we would know it from the acid and abuse those Republicans who did contradict Trump received from Trump supporters.
The Data Integrity Group, a group of data scientists, has been dissecting publicly available data on multiple states’ presidential election. Most recently, in Pennsylvania, they found over 432,000 votes were removed from President Donald Trump in at least 15 counties.
Time-series election data shows Trumps votes decreasing in various counties at many time points instead of increasing. In an election, as you count votes, you typically only see vote increments, not decrementsunless some error occurred that needs to be assessed.
The group also testified before the Georgia Senate that more than 30,000 votes were removed from President Trump in Georgia.
A clue is that this so called ‘Data Integrity Group’ is run by a Sean Hannity producer.
Justin Mealey and David LeBoue (data geeks) say there’s a problem with the battleground states’ data.
And what did they discover in the other states in the neutral examination of alleged voter irregularities across the US that is not targeted at states that cost Trump the election?
According to an election official, in Fulton County, Georgia, 113,000 mail-in ballots were cast, and 106,000 were adjudicated. These were adjudicated in one day.
432,000 votes were removed from Trump in Pennsylvania. Justin and David want to know how and why? They will accept any reasonable explanation.
Cool, let Justin and David post the data online.
Better yet, they can link us to the source data so we can check their claims ourselves.
Presumably they got the data from somewhere, right?
Have you seen the data, Stephen?
A couple of interviews on Youtube said they had to go directly to the states, and it isn’t readily available. They said they were also using Edison.
Of course, I’m assuming that they have the data for all the states of the US, so we can check to see if what they are claiming is in fact unusual – one of their claims is that Trump suffered vote reductions and no one else did, right?
So presumably they checked the votes in all states, and that gave them the confidence to make that claim.
They said they checked several states that were not the swing states and did not see the anomalies. But, they also said all the states should be checked. The group of Data Integrity geeks is a mixture of liberals and conservatives. They said our Republic doesn’t survive if there is no election integrity.
They also said they had not received an explanation from anyone why there would be decrements in Trump’s data. There has to be an adequate explanation. They said the biggest weakness in the election system is the adjudication of mail-in ballots. You lose the record once they are adjudicated.
They also said recounts and audits would not uncover these anomalies. There has to be a full forensic audit.
Well they gave an explanation:
“What we have here is we actually have fraud that we can prove in this election, there was fraud in Georgias election, we can prove it with data,” Mealey said. “The voting will of the people of Georgia is not reflected in what was certified by the Secretary of State.”
But then they contradict this:
“The Data Integrity Group didnt name any state official, county official, or related voting machine manufacturers for wrongdoing. They emphasized that the analysis is not partisan.
‘The analysis were going to be reviewing is purely scientific, not based on any political affiliation, red, blue, left, or right. The objective really focuses on numbers, data, and machine network systems,’ Lobue stated.”
IOW, in one instance, they are absolutely sure its FRAUD.
Then they emphasize that they have no idea how it happened, could be an error.
Stephen,
This stuff all had two months to be investgated, brought before judges. If 400,000 votes just NOW are missing, WTF? One should be skeptical.
But a hint is what happened to the State Farm Video in the hands of partisan hacks, Guliani et. al, as discussed in the Trump call.
Looks like the Democrats are going to control the senate.
The next couple of weeks are going to be very interesting indeed.
Will be particularly interested in what happens within the Republican party, and its relationship to Trump.
It also looks like, at this time, that the Dems will maintain control of the senate 2 years from now.
I’d really like to see the Republican party get its shit together.
Trump does not equal the Republican Party. There is no relation. The Republican Party is the establishment and status quo. Trump is not that.
And so you are no longer a conservative Republican? You’re instead a Trumpiter?
Lindsey Graham, in a brief moment of brilliance, predicted already in 2016 that GOP would be destroyed. Today we can observe it with our own eyes. As Stephen says GOP enabled a president who has a political program, expressed in daily tweets, which too a large extent has “no relation” to traditional republican policy. Rather, the program seems to have one goal; to keep Trump in power at any cost to the nation.
“Lindsey Graham
@LindseyGrahamSC
·
May 3, 2016
If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed…….and we will deserve it.”
The majority of Georgian voters have voted for democracy over autocracy! Will be very interesting to see how many of the republican members will stay with the autocrat caucus in the two chambers and neglect the vote of the people.
And remember autocrats = “leftists” according to Stephen.
”
Eric Trump
@EricTrump
·
15h
I will personally work to defeat every single Republican Senator / Congressman who doesn’t stand up against this fraud – they will be primaried in their next election and they will lose.”
Gee, apparently R’s need to bend the knee to the King and his idiot children!
Destruction and revenge is the way of the Trumpian dynasty.
But not the KKK, Antifa, or BLM?
There have been outbreaks of violence at various rallies, left and right, but Trump has the bully pulpit, and his wrecking ball is by far the largest. Looks like Eric is going to smash the careers of Republicans who didn’t obey Dad.
McConnell has stood up in congress and spoken against the notion of fraud and rejected the Republican objection to the formality of counting the electoral college ballots.
He has said today that it isn’t right to claim fraud without evidence, or to overturn the lection with “mere allegations.”
He’s been quite forceful about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9idESc8Kweg
Oh, this is just so sad. To see people smashing windows and breaking into the Capitol Building as the electoral ballots were to be counted. What a terrible day for America.
I’m really very sorry that it has come to this.
Was it so sad when you saw Antifa smashing windows and breaking into private property in dozens of cities across the US? How about when they murdered people? Was that sad? And, let’s not be so quick to label these people. Let’s find out who they are first.
They are Trump supporters, who the hell else would they be?
When your argument is “the other side do it, too” you’ve conceded the point.
Stephen. I hope you now can realize that words of leaders can cause violence, of tge most serious kind.
“Find out Who they are”?
Cmon Stephen it was obvious with their Trump flags.
And there is simply no equivalence of this to ordinary rioting.
This was insurrection.
What testimony was it where an expert testified that the software has design features where it can be used to take votes away from one candidate and give them to another? This could cause decrements in the vote total for a candidate.
I’d like to see the Data Integrity Group examine the Georgia Senate run-off election. I’m sure they will.
Data Integrity Group is what? Where is a web site that explains who they are ??
A group of left and right leaning data experts. They actually agree. The election’s integrity needs to be verified.
I also couldn’t find any trace of them as a group on the net, not a website or anything.
There’s no way to check their provenance that I can see. It’s like a bunch of people got together recently (or just 2), decided on a name and didn’t bother to confirm the group in any way.
I believe their focus so far has been to look at the data instead of starting a website.
I remember that testimony, and also the clear rejection that this was possible, and the explanation why, from the makers of the tabulators.
“All U.S. voting systems must provide assurance that they work accurately and reliably as intended under federal and state certification and testing requirements. In addition to multiple layers of testing and certification, as well as chain of custody controls, all Dominion systems use paper ballots or paper records for auditing…
A hand recount of all paper ballots in the State of Georgia completed on November 19 verified that machine vote totals were reliable and accurate….
CAN DOMINION EMPLOYEES SWITCH VOTES DURING BALLOT ADJUDICATION?
No, the canvass process exists to allow election officials to validate and count ballots that were unable to be counted on Election Day because they needed additional adjudication. Dominion employees do not have access to this adjudication system, nor do they operate it. All states require bipartisan/multi-person teams in order to adjudicate ballots in accordance with the law.”
https://www.dominionvoting.com/election2020-setting-the-record-straight/
Data Integrity disagrees. They say once it has been adjudicated, the ballot has been changed. They audited the already adjudicated ballots. And, this doesn’t explain the decrements. And, the auditors are the same people who performed the election. Data Integrity says an external forensic data analysis needs to be performed.
I say a team of Data Integrity and Jovan Pulitzer would work.
Well if the ballot has been changed after adjudication, how on Earth will they be able to audit it?
The early explanation for the decrements is that it was human error. Data Integrity says that explanation doesn’t work. The decrements were much larger in the swing states, more widespread, and much larger for Trump. And, the decrements didn’t rebound as they did for Biden.
Barry,
Fredrich Hayek disagrees with your characterization of Nazis and fascists. Maybe you should read “Road to Serfdom.”
Well done. You found an intelligent writer who nearly agrees with you.
There is no chance that the Democratic party of America is going to be anything like the Fascists or the Nazis. At least get that into your head.
All this BS over the years planting the idea that Democrats are Marxists. That has been some hella propaganda.
Friedrich Hayek is more than an intelligent writer. Don’t you agree?
I’ve never said that. But, the militant wing of the Democrat Party has more influence than I’ve ever seen. Sanders, AOC, Omar, etc., have a substantial influence. They want single-payer healthcare, gun control, ban fossil fuels, pack the court, state-run media, and high taxes. It looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, and has duck DNA.
Already back from the capitol, Stephen? I saw you on TV – or it may have been your mental brother….
Sanders, AOC, Omar are militant??? You mean like the thugs we saw yesterday? Explain.
Shansly,
You leftists showed us the way. You showed us it is OK to burn and pillage and even murder police with impunity. No, wait, the only ones murdered yesterday were the demonstrators.
Me leftist? I have never defended any burning or pillaging, whether left or right. You would not be able to observe me in your simple, two-dimensional, black and white world. And your terrorist friends need no leftists as role models – there have been plenty of rightist violent groups they probably have much stronger adherence to. Attack on a capitol building is not new – the nazis did the same with the Reichtag in 1933. But I forgot – you know very little about history.
Stephen, you live in a bubble of misinformation. I understand it is easy to be mislead, and it is very difficult to accept that you are mistaken and need to get out of your bubble.
I encourage you to listen carefully to Trump’s previous aides who has escaped from his control. They know him much, much better than you. And I just listened to an interview with John Kerry where he said: Trump is “a
very, very flawed human being”.
Universal health care is only radical in the US. Plenty of countries with capitalist markets have it. The citizens are doing ok.
The US is one of the few countries where people would prefer to pay a lot more for their own health care than a lot less for everyone to have health care. It’s also a country where people will forego necessary medical procedures because of the cost.
They won’t ban fossil fuels, they’ll just accelerate the draw down. It can result in higher fuel and electricity prices, but that can be offset if the extra tax on fossil fuel companies is passed on to consumers. Maybe they can hasten renewable energy without causing immense pain? If indeed this arm of the Democrat party drives the agenda, which they very likely won’t, at least for the next 2 years.
They don’t want state run media. That’s bollocks.
My wife and I met a couple in Orlando who was from Cardiff. They both worked for the NHS. She was a nurse, and he an administrator. They both got six or eight weeks of paid vacation per year. We talked a lot about Brittain’s healthcare system and the US. Both said, without a doubt, the US’s system was the best in the World. They vacation in Florida a lot. I asked them about their “free” healthcare. They said it isn’t free or cheap by any stretch of the imagination. They both paid an extra 10% in tax for their “free” healthcare. Also, they said government-run anything is never as good as a free market. The US’ isn’t a completely free market because Medicare and Medicaid are a pretty big chunk. They also said the world needs the US’ free market innovations. It is the driver of almost all innovation around the world. They said they couldn’t imagine a world where all healthcare is one payer.
One other tidbit they told me was that you better have an insurance card in your wallet if you vacation in the UK. If you show up to an emergency room bleeding, even if unconscious, and you aren’t a UK citizen or have evidence of insurance, then you will bleed to death. This is an example of the compassionate left.
PS. That already have state-run media. That’s bullocks.
Anecdotal evidence? The worst kind.
It wasn’t anecdotal. They were two professionals who worked in the NHS system. They had two kids, and they said their kids had received fabulous care here on a couple of occasions.
But, you’re right. I should use the leftist propaganda from WHO that is plastered all over the internet?
Barry says: can be offset if the extra tax on fossil fuels is passed on to consumers…
So, how does that work, Barry? You tax consumers at the pump and then give it back. How? Oh, I know, electric car rebates. Is that it?
Another note: Barry doesn’t mention gun control. The left needs another mass shooting to stir everyone up. Oh, but wait. Now that Biden’s in charge, everyone is happy.
You tax the fossil fuel companies on their emissions to encourage them to invest in alternative energy. The extra revenue you receive from the companies you pass on to the consumer in the form of tax breaks and/or rebates, and to other companies affected.
We did it in Australia for a while and it worked pretty well, if not perfectly. We also dropped our emissions significantly. Our taxatrion schedule was overhauled and I can assure you that we didn’t suffer economically, though some households had a little less money by the end of the year. A lot more households came out in front.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_pricing_in_Australia
Considering the death by gun rate and the awful fact of regular school shootings in America, I’m not sure I’m against some more regulations on guns. But our countries and cultures are very different on this.
I don’t know any other country that has regular school shootings like the US. Why does it happen? And how can you stop your children killing each other like this?
Data Integrity says the only explanation that could appear to work would be some systemic error. But, it happened in several states and didn’t appear to have been corrected. This is going to get interesting, folks.
Listen, there might be an honest explanation of the decrements that didn’t cause the election to be affected. I trust this Data Integrity Group. If they say the explanation works, then I will believe them.
“I trust this Data Integrity Group”
It is astonishing that you say that, given that nobody can find an internet signature for this ‘Group’.
It seem that you will follow/trust anyone who feeds you a message that confirms your beliefs.
Wow, no one can find an internet signature for this group. It must not be legit.
You missed the question, I see.
What is the basis for your trust of this group, if we know nothing about it?
Well, it’s over.
Congress has certified the election of Joe Biden to the US presidency.
And it looks like the Dems will control the senate. Republican senators in Georgia will probably take everyone through litigation, even though the margins are substantial.
At least Stephen will get to see if the sky falls down.
This will end in a major disaster for the Democrats. Biden will go down as the worst President in history and maybe the last.
hee hee
Those armed terrorists who shook the nation, attempted an insurrection, and forcibly occupied our Capitol should be thrown in jail for decades.
These terrorists (they are not protesters; they are not rioters; they are terrorists, insurrectionists, and traitors) have violated the following federal laws:
18 U.S.C. Sec 2385. Seditious Conspiracy. If two or more people conspire by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, penalties are fines and twenty years imprisonment.
18 U.S.C. Sec 1361. Destruction of Government Property. If the damage exceeds $100, penalties are fines up to $250,000 and ten years imprisonment.
18 U.S.C. Sec 111. Assaulting Federal Officers. Fines vary, 20 years imprisonment.
18 U.S.C. Sec 351. Assault on Members of Congress. One year imprisonment.
41 CFR 102-74.380. Creating a Hazard on Federal Property. Penalties vary.
36 CFR 2.34 (and elsewhere). Disorderly Conduct. 90 days imprisonment, $300 fine.
Patriots step up now!
https://tips.fbi.gov/digitalmedia/aad18481a3e8f02
Well. I don’t see how the rioters have failed to break federal law here.
Wonder if all those Antifa and BLM protestors who destroyed federal property are in prison now? Not important. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Articles of impeachment being circulated.
1.He unlawfully incited, set on foot, assisted, or engaged in a rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gave aid or comfort to such efforts.
2.He conspired with others to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the government of the United States, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of laws of the United States, including the Electoral Count Act, 3 U.S.C. Sec 15, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof.
3.He advocated, abetted, advised, or taught the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States by force or violence, or organized or helped or attempted to organize a group or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of the United States government by force or violence, or conspired with others to do so.
4.He unlawfully solicited, intimidated, threatened, or attempted to coerce the Secretary of State of Georgia to alter the State’s presidential election results by failing or refusing to tabulate, count, and report votes for his opponent, or by fraudulently enlarging votes for himself, or conspired with others to commit these acts.
5.He unlawfully conspired with others or attempted to deprive or defraud the residents of the State of Georgia of a fair and impartially conducted election process through the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that were materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State of Georgia.
Maybe if they really hurry, this will go to trial by the end of February.
Maybe Congress can pass a resolution that Trump can never be allowed to run for President again.
I note here that this nitwit Stephen` Paul Anderson has been wrong about every single thing he’s predicted on this blog.
hee hee
And rather than deal with the scenes of anarchy at the Capitol yesterday, he points off to other groups.
“B-but he did it too!” That’s the tactic of a child.
I sincerely hope that people like Stephen can agree that statements like Trump’s “Sacred landslide election victory was unceremoniously & viciously stripped away”, are completely irrational.
I sincerely hope they can see that Trump’s statements that “The Vice President has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors” are very clearly an unconstitutional attempt at a power grab.
I sincerely hope the they can see that such a mass delusion, led by an irrational person in authority, can lead to a very a bad place for America, as it did yesterday.
10:30 a.m.
Former Attorney General William Barr says President Donald Trump’s conduct as a violent mob of his supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol was a “betrayal of his office and supporters.”
In a statement to The Associated Press, Barr said Thursday that “orchestrating a mob to pressure Congress is inexcusable.”
Barr was one of Trump’s most loyal and ardent defenders in the Cabinet.
Yes, I disagreed with Trump that Pence had the power to reject electors. This has always been up to the state legislators (and the people) to fix, and they failed. They allowed the Democrats to cheat. The cheating will come out.
Data Integrity Group says Trump lost 91,823 ballots in Chester County, Pennsylvania alone. Where did they go? They also said in several Philadelphia precincts, Biden received 97 percent of ballots cast.
Barr’s a GREAT GUY now! Isn’t he?
Barr as AG bent over backwards to support Trump. He was rightly criticised for going too far.
“The cheating will come out.”
Again great certainty from you, when the evidence is always going to ‘come out’ in the future.
False belief like yours, driven by months of propaganda, is what led to yesterdays horrific violence and insurrection.
But the years of horrific violence from the left bothered you, not.
Nate, they’ve already identified fraudulent data. Now they need to determine how.
No, they haven’t identified fraudulent data, apart from a very few fake votes – like the Republican voter who put his dead mother’s ballot in.
Trump and his minions (you) have been saying you’ve had the evidence for two months. The evidence, if ever you mention it, has cganged over the period as each bit gets is shown to be BS – remember trucks offloading ballots, boxes pulled from under tables, zero access to Republican observers? All debunked. Remember Giouliani claiming fraud, but when he took the case to court stated clearly to the judge it wasn’t a fraud case?
You’ve never had the evidence, you’ve just mouthed what partisan BS artists have said.
Do you mean like the leftists have shown us for four years?
At Nate
Nate says: I hope that people like Stephen can agree….
I will never agree with a leftist.
And theres your problem. The facts are irrelevant.
All that matters is knowing who the enemy is.
Here is the Data Integrity Group’s testimony to the Georgia Senate election committee. Their testimony shows the decrements cannot be due to human error. There is clear evidence of fraud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShxISeC7JlI
Yes Stephen, we have seen it already. Stop trying to distract us from yesterday’s events.
The police shot a woman coming through a window at the Capitol Building. Excessive use of force. Only for Trump supporters, though.
Yes, the little micro-riot and the cowering representatives are way more important than our Republic’s election integrity.
Police shot and killed this unarmed female Air Force veteran. What brave officer did this?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/woman-killed-capitol-riot-shooting-032328298.html
Are you REALLY so retarded that you dont understand what was going on there in the Capital?
People were fucking invading the center of our government, by force, asshole!
“little micro-riot”
Deep reality denial there, Stephen.
A sign of deep insecurity about your belief in Trump?
Nope. Because I understand how the left operates. You sow the seeds of chaos and anarchy for four years, and then when it erupts on the right, your first response is to act outraged and indignant. Doesn’t work, Bub.
“seeds of chaos and anarchy for four years”
Thats the Trump playbook. Never take responsibility. Always find someone else to blame.
There is a bright side to yesterday’s events. Trump’s political career is finished. He has no chance for a comeback in 2024. The Republican primary will be wide open.
Hope you are right.
Bet you’re wrong. I would vote for him again, and or Trump Jr.
Trump is toxic. He had many chances to behave like an adult. He could have been worshiped like a hero as the greatest President of all time. Instead, he chose to act crazy and fight with the press — starting on day one with the crowd size nonsense. He lost his reelection in the first debate. All of the reasonable people who were undecided realized in that moment that all of the his critics who worked him and got fired were correct. He is unfit for office. His accomplishments in the economy with historic low unemployment, and peace in the Middle East will now be squandered. Taxes will go up, government regulation and dependency by the poor will increase, and Iran will get the bomb because the far left sides with Palestine against Israel.
The Republican Party now has a chance for a fresh start with new leaders who are rational and sane, to convince young voters that full employment and a strong economy is better than high tax rates government dependency.
Crossfire Hurricane is still the biggest scandal in FBI history, and it was directed and supervised by President Obama, but that does not excuse Trump’s behavior. It actually makes it worse because now the Durham report will disappear into obscurity.
The left is toxic. We need someone toxic to fight back. Trump isn’t the target, we are. I’m already sick of this feigned outrage. The left thrives in anarchy.
The Durham Report, my ass.
“Crossfire Hurricane is still the biggest scandal in FBI history, and it was directed and supervised by President Obama”
Isn’t Obama’s directorship of the surveillance a pro-Trump conspiracy theory?
You haven’t been paying attention.
It is not very convincing when someone who is consumed by politics pretends to ignorant. Hopefully the Durham report will get finished and published.
Obama’s involvement is documented in the FBI field notes. The failed conspiracy theory is that Trump really was a Russian agent.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/11/looks-like-president-obama-ordered-up-phony-russiagate-scandal/
Been over this ad-nauseum, Tim.
The whole FISA warrant thing is a good example of right-wing media amplification of speeding tickets into the heinous felonies.
Sorry, Tim, that article doesn’t demonstrate that Obama directed surveillance. To quote:
“From a national-security perspective,” Rice’s memo afterward put it, “President Obama said he wants to be sure that, as we engage with the incoming team, we are mindful to ascertain if there is any reason that we cannot share information fully as it relates to Russia.”
Is that it? Because that sounds only like Obama taking an ongoing investigation seriously – an investigation he did not initiate.
Note – this article is an opinion piece. Opinion pieces do not heavily rely on facts.
There is a link there leading to another article about Flyyn’s lawyer claiming he was framed by Obama. And who is the lawyer?
Sidney Powell.
Even if the provenance of the claim were not already heavily tainted (team Trump disowned her after she tried too hard to litigate the election for them), this is hearsay from a lawyer for Michael Flynn.
She said Obama knew about the Fylnn phone calls, and “”specified that he did not want any additional information on the matter, but was seeking information on whether the White House should be treating Flynn any differently, given the information,” according to documents released last week as part of the Justice Department’s motion to dismiss the Flynn case.”
https://tinyurl.com/y2ev5djg
The guy directing surveillance of the Trump campaign did not seek additional information, but was asking whether they should be circumspect with Flynn, whom the FBI had brought compromising info on?
Sorry, I don’t see it demonstrated that Obama orchestrated Hurricane Crossfire, but I do see an opinion piece weaving that narrative from thin material.
Leaks of the Durham report confirm my opinion, but I am content to wait until it is released. There is already the IG’s report, which says there were mistakes, nut politics did not bias the investigation.
To date, the notion that Obama orchestrated and directed HC is a right-wing conspiracy theory, and Donald Trump is the source of it, as he has been of a great number of recent conservative conspiracy theories.
The man is a huckster, I believe, and he has spent 4 years conning his supporters. The grift continues, the suckers keep giving him money.
Sorry, but I never got past “Sorry, Tim, that article doesn’t demonstrate”…….
I have no interest in doing your research. You cannot claim to be well informed and ignorant at the same time. The Horowitz report was enough really, but it did not tie Obama to the scandal. For my part, lack of proof of intent is not proof there was no intent. The fact that the people involved made no attempt to explain what happened is enough.
There is enough in the public domain to show that Obama was running the show. The Durham report will fill in the blanks if it is made public or leaked.
Nate, the leftist, cares not about election integrity. Nate only cares that his agenda is advanced.
Huh? You have no idea what I care about, Stephen.
I care about democracy. I care about our institutions. Some of the R senators do also.
You obviously don’t.
Does Nate care about our institutions like Antifa and BLM? KKK? I think so; he said he does.
??
Pennsylvania House:
After initially calling for a full audit of the election results, the Pennsylvania House GOP advanced a measure for an “extensive risk-limiting audit,” and all Democrats on the committee voted against it…
This is good, Nate? You’re for it?
House resolution, not a Bill sent to Senate or Governor. Why?
What’s a measure?
Does Civil Sleepy Joe love children? I think so. What do you think, Nate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fE5r4aLdaE&has_verified=1
What do you think about what this former Navy Seal has to say?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/capitol-riots-dan-crenshaw-violence-cruz-hawley
It sounds like Crenshaw knows the left well. He knew the left would stand lockstep and certify the election. I guess Cruz and Hawley are dreamers, idealists. I don’t blame them for what they did. However, there were anarchists in the crowd of Trump supporters. Some of the Trump supporters got carried away as the anarchists planned. But, overall, they were pretty tame. The only ones who lost control were the Capitol police, who murdered that woman and maybe others. This was nothing compared to the burning, looting, and murdering of BLM and Antifa. This is what the left wants. Your propaganda doesn’t work here.
This dimwit better make sure his VPN is shipshape. Many of his comments here border on sedition and that dog won’t hunt no more!
This is my real name. I live in Tennessee. I don’t try to hide behind some anonymous pseudonym, hey Guffman?
“The only ones who lost control were the Capitol police, who murdered that woman and maybe others.”
Murdered??
When she and others were breaking into the capital by force, actually fighting with the police who are there to protect the congressmen, senators, and the VP, she should have known that her actions could lead to harm to herself, police (one died 50 injured) or others.
“This was nothing compared to the burning, looting, and murdering of BLM and Antifa. ”
What an imbecile you are.
Have you seen the videos? The Capitol Police were inviting the protesters up to the Capitol Building. “Come on up,” they were saying. This was another burning of the Reichstag.
Yes, and she was murdered.
Yes Ive seen the clear videos of the fighting to get inside the building. Officers battling being beaten up. Officers pointing their weapons at doors and windows being broken in.
No need to convince us any further that you have lost touch with reality.
Do you mean this one, blowhard?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ5HLu13McU
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2021/jan/07/pro-trump-rioters-storm-us-capitol-during-vote-on-bidens-election-victory-video-report
And that one guy backing up, was calling for backup the whole time, and at the end he gets help, and the mob is stopped.
more clear
https://tinyurl.com/y5ydowbe
Violent forced entry with no regard for police.
https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/video-shows-capitol-police-cop-getting-crushed-by-protesters/
Wall Street Journal Editors:
“In concise summary, on Wednesday the leader of the executive branch incited a crowd to march on the legislative branch. The express goal was to demand that Congress and Vice President Mike Pence reject electors from enough states to deny Mr. Biden an Electoral College victory. When some in the crowd turned violent and occupied the Capitol, the President caviled and declined for far too long to call them off. When he did speak, he hedged his plea with election complaint.
This was an assault on the constitutional process of transferring power after an election. It was also an assault on the legislature from an executive sworn to uphold the laws of the United States. This goes beyond merely refusing to concede defeat. In our view it crosses a constitutional line that Mr. Trump hasnt previously crossed. It is impeachable.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-final-days-11610062773?mod=hp_opin_pos_1
No, it wasn’t. He’s an idiot. The only thing unconstitutional is having a fraudulent election.
Trump incited a riot to stop the lawful process of ballot counting in America’s temple to democracy.
You, Stephen, are excusing sedition. You don’t deserve to be called American.
Your propaganda is in overdrive. Trump supporters aren’t stupid.
What else were they doing smashing the windows and doors in? They were trying to stop the ballot count. And for the time that they were there, they succeeded. Trump urged them that morning to march down to the Capitol and do that. He even promised to join them, though of course he didn’t march with them. He’s just that full of shit.
“I just talked to Mike. I said, ‘Mike, [overturning the results] doesn’t take courage. What takes courage is to do nothing. That takes courage.’ …We’re just not going to let that happen… We will never give up; we will never concede… We will stop the steal. We’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol… We’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones… the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.”
2 hours later that crowd had marched down Pennsylvania Avenue and smashed windows and doors and broke into the Capitol. Trump sent them there to “Stop the Steal.”
No question in my mind he incited what happened at the Capitol.
The truth will come! hee hee
An attorney representing President Trump in one of his dozens of lawsuits challenging the 2020 election moved to withdraw from the case on Thursday, telling a federal court that the president used him to “perpetrate a crime.”
Philadelphia-based attorney Jerome Marcus asked the court to allow him to withdraw, citing concerns over Pennsylvania’s professional conduct standards for lawyers.
Marcus wrote that “the client has used the lawyer’s services to perpetrate a crime and the client insists upon taking action that the lawyer considers repugnant and with which the lawyer has a fundamental disagreement.”
The move comes a day after a large mob of Trump supporters, galvanized by the president himself, stormed the Capitol as lawmakers were certifying President-elect Joe Biden’s win. The riot left four people dead, including one woman who was fatally shot by police.
The case Marcus was involved in was one of the earliest election challenges that Trump filed and one of the most short-lived. Submitted just two days after the election, it sought to halt the vote counting in Philadelphia, accusing elections officials of illegally excluding Trump’s poll watchers from observing the process.
“An attorney representing Trump” sounds like a brave soul.
Trump says the Capitol rioters “do not represent our country,” and “have defiled the seat of American democracy.”
He says he is “outraged” by the mayhem, and “deployed law enforcement to expel the intruders,” and promised that those who broke the law “will pay.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd7Ivv1SnHA
That’s a video of him saying these things.
What do you think of that, Stephen?
Barry,
Here is a video put out last night from Joy Villa. She has two of her followers who were there yesterday. Watch the whole thing. First, the Capitol police were encouraging the protesters to come up to the steps. Second, when the black-hooded “anarchists” when up to the Capitol attempting a break-in, you can hear the real Trump supporters telling them to “stop” and “too far.” What do you think? Maybe this isn’t following your narrative. Those two Trump supporters seem like a couple of roughies, don’t they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ghqHtaAKJk
Stephen wouldnt make it thru the first round on ‘Are you smarter thsn a 5th grader’
And I know some people who know some people who say that all the BLM looters were actually Trumpiter infiltrators..
So they all just switched places, I guess.
You didn’t even watch, did you? Blowhard.
“It was just a ‘micro-riot’. ”
“No worse than Leftist riots.”
‘Ok. It was bad, but it was actually Antifa, BLM people.’
Its just so classic.
Stephen, when you watch what Trump said and give your opinion as I asked, I will then look at your video. No deflections, please.
I’m just reading that other government buildings in various states were stormed, or under threat these buildings were evacuated.
Live pipe bombs laid. A guillotine outside the Arizona state government building. Rioters saying that they would be back with guns.
These are thugs and anarchists wearing the flag and wielding rapid fire rifles.
The Republican brand is forever tarnished. Trump has completely trashed it. And he has egged on an insurrection. Only now, far too late, has he half-heartedly tried to reel it in.
Reports from left-wing media are so reliable. Keep reading.
I don’t really care about the Republican brand. How well did the Republican brand serve those two in Georgia? This is about saving our Republic if we can. You leftists want to see its demise.
You have never seemed like a Republican to me. There’s a good chance the party will split after this. Or else the vile Republicans who backed Trump will try to worm their way to some distance from him.
You should know about insurrections. The one I know about is Adam Schiff and his “whistleblower,” and Strozk, McCabe, and Comey trying to unseat a duly elected President. And, Rosenstein, Mueller, and Weissmann with their special “Special Counsel.” That insurrection was OK with you, right?
I’ve searched back through the board looking for your concern and outrage when the protesters were hurling firebombs at the Federal Building in Portland? Can you link it for me? I’m sure you couldn’t be a hypocrite.
Stephen stop with the Whataboutism.
Even my wife’s 4th graders know they can’t get away with that crap anymore.
Move along. Move along; nothing to see here. You’re not allowed to illustrate our hypocrisy.
First I’ve heard of the firebombs in Portland. Did someone bring the topic up?
Stephen, I condemn all acts of political violence. Stop trying to deflect our questions by throwing everything back.
You’re dodging.
What did you think of Trump’s condemnation of the Capitol Building riot?
Just about everyone in congress on both sides of the aisle, and the VP, who were under assault in the capital and had to be swiftly evacuated, was outraged.
If you are not why not?
Here’s a hint.
Trump was not outraged at what he saw. He said they were special people. He said he loved them. Because these were HIS supporters.
He only became outraged when he saw the fallout of their actions, as it reflected badly on him.
Nate,
Are you only this angry at Trump supporters who riot or all rioters? I’ve never seen this from you before. So throwing Molotov cocktails is not OK?
No, you turgid partisan shill, throwing molotv cocktails is not ok. But you are avoiding our questions and points by deflecting to other acts of violence. This is about the storming of the Capitol Building, people breaking in windows and doors to do it.
My guess is you are trying to formulate an opinion to make it look ok, and are deflecting while you scramble not to contradict Trump, who outright condemned it.
The truth will come! hee hee
Former Trump campaign lawyer Sidney (Kraken) Powell was sued for defamation by the voting-machine company she repeatedly placed at the center of a vast and unfounded election conspiracy. The complaint filed Friday by Dominion Voting Systems Inc. seeks $1.3 billion.
They’re just getting started!
That suit will be tossed. Did you watch the Data Integrity Group testimony in Georgia? Dominion Voting will need to answer some questions. Someone in that chain of custody took votes away from Trump. It was a programmer who did it.
hee hee
You’re just a bunch of guff, aren’t you, Tyson? Hee hee. You love this anarchy. Hee hee.
Here’s another guy who was at the rally. It doesn’t quite fit your narrative, though, does it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95uKMw17Zbg
Yeah, well, I know some people who know some people who say that all the BLM looters were actually Trumpiter agents…
Link your video.
Nate, will you answer Chris’ question?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-zb58uiFjU
You are soooo gullible.
Do you believe every 2-bit video on the internet that favors your POV?
It seems so.
Trump is not attending the fraudulent inauguration. He shouldn’t.
He’ll be busy evading arrest.
Are you from Nazi Germany? Soviet Union? Cuba?
Anyone who voted for Trump should be arrested for insurrection, according to Nate and Guff.
No just the guys that were part of the insurrection.
Here are some of them
https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2021/01/07/capitol-riot-inside-look-reeve-pkg-lead-vpx.cnn
Nate,
Should all rioters be treated equally?
I am fine with anybody committing crimes to be prosecuted.
And, so the rioters in Portland, Minneapolis, Louisville, Detroit, Kenosha, etc. should all be prosecuted? I’m glad we agree on something. However, this is the first I’ve heard this from you. How about social media banning? What are your thoughts on this?
This is somehow justified by earlier riots by people on the Left?
https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/video-shows-capitol-police-cop-getting-crushed-by-protesters/
That is the essence of Whataboutism and False Equivalence.
Look, people on both sides are passionate, and capable of violence.
But right now, the country is correctly focused on this unprecedented act, a violent assault on one branch of the federal government, incited by another branch.
From WSJ’s oped:
“We know an act of grace by Mr. Trump isn’t likely. In any case this week has probably finished him as a serious political figure. He has cost Republicans the House, the White House, and now the Senate. Worse, he has betrayed his loyal supporters by lying to them about the election and the ability of Congress and Mr. Pence to overturn it. He has refused to accept the basic bargain of democracy, which is to accept the result, win or lose.
It is best for everyone, himself included, if he goes away quietly.”
So true, so true! Next Murdoch should do smthing with Fox News. Hannity and Carlson belong on the rubbish heap.
Fox News, Hannity, and Tucker should be charged with insurrection.
Did you meet Hannity and Carlson in the capitol as well?
I’d love to meet both. Great Americans.
West Virginia Delegate Derrick Evans, a GOP seditionist who livestreamed his siege on the Capitol, has been ARRESTED by the FBI.
You do know that’s a misdemeanor. This is all for show.
He wasn’t arrested for sedition, genius.
That’s alright then.
Nate, Guff, Shansly, did you know the Nazis burned books too? I thought today’s left has nothing in common with leftists of the past?
Trump banned from Twitter. The Nazis banned books. Maybe today’s left does have something in common with the Nazis.
You do understand that Twitter is a private company?
No person has a ‘right’ to speak on Twitter.
Olive Garden has revoked Sean Hannity’s Lifetime Pasta Pass. The left has gone too far! Bunch of Nazis!
Aww, life has gotten rough for him..
Democrats impeaching Trump for inciting sedition. Has anyone been charged with sedition?
My concern is that if he is impeached or the 25th is invoked, his supporters will riot again and maybe do worse physical damage.
Better to let the human wrecking ball slink out on Jan 20th.
He might be impeached, but it won’t go beyond that. You Nazis will continue burning books and labeling “Juden” as much as you can. Don’t let a perceived crisis go to waste. However, this isn’t the Weimar Republic as much as you’d like it to be.
You got it mixed up, it wasn’t the Weimar Republic that burned books etc., it was it’s enemies.
This is where the R party is right now.
“On Friday, supporters of Mr. Trump swarmed Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, at his gate at Ronald Reagan National Airport, calling him a ‘traitor.’
‘You know it was rigged, you know it was rigged,’ a woman yelled as he was ushered away by a security detail. ‘You garbage human being. It’s going to be like this forever, wherever you go, for the rest of your life.’
A similar scene unfolded Tuesday night in the Salt Lake City airport as Senator Mitt Romney, Republican of Utah, sat waiting to fly to Washington. A maskless woman approached and called him a ‘disgusting shame’ for not standing with the president. Once on board, Mr. Romney was greeted by supporters of Mr. Trump chanting ‘Traitor!’
Some Republicans, like Senators Kevin Cramer of North Dakota and Todd Young of Indiana, both of whom voted to certify President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory, tried to reason with their constituents, working through their concerns point by point in scenes captured on video outside the Capitol.
Senator Kevin Cramer, Republican of North Dakota, telling Trump supporters this week that he would not back an objection to certified electors.
But Mr. Cramer and Mr. Young could not persuade them that what the president and many of their Republican colleagues had told them was wrong — that there was no evidence of widespread fraud in the election, and no way for Congress to overturn the results.
‘A vast majority of the people in this country are going to lose their faith in government’ if Mr. Biden’s ‘fraudulent’ victory was affirmed, an older man from North Dakota told Mr. Cramer on Tuesday, his face grave. ‘I am on the verge of doing that.’
By the end, neither side had budged, and there was nothing left to do, his constituents decided, but to pray for the country and for the senator.
‘I was just very sad’, Mr. Cramer said later. ‘They think that there’s a remedy in this place for what ails them, and the reality is there’s not. They came all this way thinking that somehow, if they spoke loudly enough,’ the results could change.
Mr. Cramer reasoned that like so many others, his constituents had ‘believed it because they wanted to believe’ that the outcome could still be overturned. But he showed a flash of frustration, referring to his 12 Republican colleagues who had spearheaded the effort to challenge Mr. Biden’s victory, but would not
‘admit that it’s not going to be successful.’
‘We have to be careful about what we make people believe is possible when we know it’s not,’ Mr. Cramer said.
Ms. Mace said that she hoped that ‘the American people’s eyes might be open’ after Wednesday’s violence, and that lawmakers, including in her own party, would be more aggressive in calling out falsehoods and dangerous language.
‘I’ve been more vocal than ever in the last 24 hours, and I had no intention to,’ Ms. Mace said. ‘But now is not the time to sit idly by and allow this to continue. It’s got to stop, and enough is enough.’
Whether Republican voters will listen, however, is a separate question. The throng of rioters at the Capitol on Wednesday included white supremacists, people carrying and wearing Confederate symbols, and many with ‘Q’ paraphernalia signifying belief in the pro-Trump conspiracy movement QAnon that falsely holds that Mr. Trump is fighting a satanic cabal of Democratic pedophiles.
Before the mob rampaged through the Capitol on Wednesday, Mr. Young was confronted by a crowd wearing pro-Trump garb outside a Senate office building.
‘You’re supposed to represent our opinion,’ a woman plaintively told him.
‘When it comes to the law, our opinions don’t matter — the law matters,’ Mr. Young told her, in an exchange captured on video. ‘I value your opinion. I actually share your concerns. I share your conviction that President Trump should remain president. I share that conviction.’
‘The law matters to us!’ a man shot back as others chimed in. ‘It doesn’t matter to the Democrats.’
Mr. Young grew exasperated.
‘I took an oath under God — under God!’ Mr. Young said, his voice shaking with emotion. ‘Don’t we still take that seriously in this country?’
NYT
Rioters chant “Hang Mike Pence” at the doors of the Capitol Building.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba0UR7gITrU
There’s a photo of a guy in the Capitol Building with a handful of zip ties they use for cuffs.
https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2021/01/zip-cuffs-capitol-1-featured-scaled-e1610132753871.jpg?resize=865,452&quality=65
I don’t think he was a Trumpster. You’ll need to show me.
https://tinyurl.com/y59lxsra
“MEMPHIS, Tenn. A Tennessee man who had expressed pro-Trump views and was accused by online researchers of carrying plastic hand restraints in the U.S. Senate during the Capitol riot Wednesday, has been arrested.
The Nashville man, Eric Munchel, 30, was being held in a Nashville jail Sunday on a federal warrant, online records show. An FBI spokesperson, Samantha Shero, confirmed the arrest.”
Trump’s communications director explains Trump lied that the election could be overturned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kim_E3z-fk
That would be Ex. Probably an innocent mistake on your part. The election could have been overturned, but it wasn’t very probable. I’ve never seen leftists break ranks. The Borg do not do that. They are one.
Some of the MAGAts who stormed the US Capitol smeared their own feces throughout the building and left brown footprints in their wake. Some rioters had defecated in the Capitol.
The Capitol sustained significant damage as hordes of rioters kicked down doors and climbed scaffolding to gain entry.
One rioter, US Air Force veteran Ashli Babbitt, was shot to death by Capitol Police, and there were dozens of arrests.
Three other MAGAts died after medical emergencies related to the breach.
Capitol Police Officer Brian D. Sicknick later died from injuries he suffered during the riot. The Capitol Police said in a statement that Sicknick was fatally injured while physically engaging with rioters. It is believed a protester beat him to death with a fire extinguisher. Sicknick, like those in the mob, was a MAGAt, according to his social media pages.
Pig-headed arrogant shitlords are nothing more than selfish traitors and cult 45ers.
Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police Chief Robert Contee said Thursday morning that 34-year-old Rosanne Boyland, of Kennesaw, died of an undisclosed medical emergency. A police spokesperson told Channel 2 Action News Boyland was potentially crushed to death during the breach at the Capitol while carrying a “Don’t tread on me” flag. The irony!
https://6abc.com/us-capitol-riot-rosanne-boyland-donald-trump-supporter-family/9497193/
Sad that so many people have been horribly mislead, and took it too far.
After Wednesday’s events, Mexico has decided that it will pay for the wall. And Canada wants one too.
Our strategy worked.
Ha! Its a joke Stephen.
Proof yet again that he’s not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.
Ha, me too.
Most of the conservative platforms are being banned by Twitter, Google (Youtube), Facebook, and other social media platforms. I closed my Twitter account a year ago and didn’t use Facebook. Barry says there is no way we can say that the modern left is related to Nazis in any way. OK, Barry, if you say so. I am following Trump on Parler, but I’m hearing he’s starting his own platform. I will attempt to be his first subscriber. There are a lot of good conservatives on Parler.
You keep bringing up the Nazis. Yes, in 1933 they destroyed the Reichtag building in Berlin and blamed the jews. Just like you and your likeminded thugs attacked the Capitol building and are blaming the left. Lots of similarities…
Did you intend to conflate, or is your brain just whacky? I forgot you’re a leftist.
I leave that to you.
You’re like a little jackal slithering around waiting for a bone. You fit in well with your fellow leftists.
And do you also have any points relevant to the topics discussed?
Uh… the Democratic party isn’t banning Trump on social media. These are privately owned companies banning him. The platforms are not the property of the people using them, and the owners can ban anyone they like. Trump’s rhetoric has led to these dark days. He urged his followers to march on the Capitol. Too right he’s been banned for being a dangerous SOB.
You do understand the difference, Stephen? No one has a ‘right’ to post on social platforms, and any private company can ban someone from using their services.
This is exactly what libertarians and traditional conservatives approve of. The government shouldn’t tell private companies what to do. If your guy gets banned, that’s not a socialist action, that is the action of private ownership without government interference.
The Trump administration actively sought to intervene in how these companies regulate the content people post.
Libertarians and real conservatives would argue that the public decides whether a company’s policies are good or not, and can choose not to buy or participate. “The market decides,” is the classic phrase.
The Trumpsters want the companies to do what Trump tells them.
Now leftist Nazis going after Trump’s allies. They think they’ve destroyed Trump (wrong) and now going after his allies.
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trump-allies-helped-plan-promote-234801490.html
??
Among people who broke into the capital was one guy prominently carrying a large Confederate flag.
Another guy had a ‘Camp Auschwitz’ sweatshirt.
Lots of ‘Q’ supporters.
IOW people who are either white supremacists, neo-Nazis, or conspiracy minded.
Auschwitz was a product of Nazis, white supremacists, who were leftists. In Nuremberg, Nazis used Jim Crow laws as their blueprint to discriminate against Jews.
And now their sympathizer joins Trump supporters in the Capitolium.
And these people are all aligning themselves with Trump.
“There are a lot of good conservatives on Parler.”
Be honest, are any at Parler promoting white supremacy, neo-Nazi-ism, or violence against Leftists?
When the going gets tough, Murkowski wilts like the little flower she is. Good riddance, Murkowski. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass!
https://www.yahoo.com/news/murkowski-becomes-1st-gop-senator-231129442.html
Leftist Sheila Jackson Lee wants to continue the enslavement of black people. The Democrat Party has changed, according to Barry.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/pay-owe-rep-sheila-jackson-220000656.html
Uh.. looks like she wants to penalise the US government for having permitted slavery. But who can tell with an article that is a poorly written opinion piece?
Book burning was popular among the Nazis.
The era of extreme Jewish intellectualism is now at an end…The future German man will not just be a man of books, but a man of character. It is to this end that we want to educate you. As a young person, to already have the courage to face the pitiless glare, to overcome the fear of death, and to regain respect for death this is the task of this young generation. And thus, you do well in this midnight hour to commit to the flames the evil spirit of the past. This is a strong, great and symbolic deed a deed which should document the following for the world to know Here the intellectual foundation of the November [Democratic] Republic is sinking to the ground, but from this wreckage, the phoenix of a new spirit will triumphantly rise…Joseph Goebbels
“Hang Mike Pence” they shouted – the Trump coup attempt by dangerous terrorist invited by the president. Loosers.
Here are comments about the Trump coup attempt and the Nazies from one who knows a lot more about the Nazis than you apparently do.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/10/capitol-riot-schwarzenegger-rebukes-trump-kristallnacht
I grew up in Austria and was very aware of Kristallnacht, or the Night of Broken Glass, he said. It was a night of rampage against the Jews carried out [by] the Nazi equivalent of the Proud Boys [a quasi-fascist group of Trump supporters].
“But I do believe that we must be aware of the dire consequences of selfishness and cynicism. President Trump sought to overturn the results of an election. And a fair election. He sought a coup by misleading people with lies. My father and our neighbours were misled also with lies. I know where such lies lead.”
President Trump is a failed leader. He will go down in history as the worst president ever. The good thing is he soon will be as irrelevant as an old tweet.
Schwarzenegger appealed to Americans patriotism and commended lawmakers who regathered after the assault on the Capitol to confirm Joe Bidens victory, despite objections from 147 Republican representatives and senator
Have you seen any of the evidence of the testimony by Data Integrity Group? Apparently not. You speak from ignorance.
You nor I nor anyone else know who the Proud Boys are. I do know minorities have joined their group. The only thing they seem to be against is tyranny. Does it make them fascists?
Is it the Sean Hannitys Lynda McLaughlin you have such high confidence in??? As a statistician?
Experienced Executive Producer with a demonstrated history of working in the media production industry. Skilled in Digital Strategy, Advertising, Film, Media Relations, and Radio. Strong arts and design professional with a Master of Business Administration (MBA) focused in Business Administration and Management, General from Temple University.
What is the history of this Data Integrity Group?
Ho,ho you really are easy to manipulate by misinformation!
Fortunately, more and more republicans seems to bow to the reality.
The point is that no matter whether YOU think Nazis were the Left or the Right, the point is that TODAY, neo Nazis are alligned with Trump, and the extreme Right. People who carry the Confederate Flag and are racists, align themselves with Trump, and the Right.
Who are the neo-Nazis aligned with Trump? They aren’t conservatives. Trump can’t control people who want to align with him seemingly. He has said, “I don’t accept these people.” What else do you want him to do? However, the Democrats willingly accept and encourage Antifa and BLM. Those are the only fascists and neo-Nazis I know.
Trump said the Capitol rioters “do not represent our country,” and “have defiled the seat of American democracy.”
He says he is “outraged” by the mayhem, and “deployed law enforcement to expel the intruders,” and promised that those who broke the law “will pay.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd7Ivv1SnHA
That’s a video of him saying these things.
Do you disagree with Trump, then, Stephen?
“Who are the neo-Nazis aligned with Trump? They aren’t conservatives.”
They dont care how YOU label them Stephen.
You simply have to open your eyes, Stephen, to see who is attending rallies and who is storming the Capital. Look at Parler and see the comments.
It does no one any good to wear blinders that prevent you from seeing the reality that DTs demagoguery has had strong appeal to them. Going back to his ‘Birtherism’ and ‘Mexican Immigrant rapists’ ‘Fine people on both sides’.
Yes, the neo-nazis partisipated in the Trump coup attempt!
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/14XNOtqpF3POZdmSdzIvR_taYLiaXIYGKzrCJ9VGg2ic/edit?usp=sharing
And I also found a picture of Stephen.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1QWnQ4HAvgzcrDlZjcp3BYYXoZYAGs9fYNNlOrh9sBPo/edit?usp=sharing
We get to hear from the people who stormed the Capitol why they did it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulvBH8ccd2g
Right now I see little difference – in terms of fanaticism – between these people and Islamic extremists. No hangings or beheadings, but that might be because they never got their hands on the infidels Pence and Pelosi.
It’s the Democrats who have allied with the Islamists.
I hope they find who laid the pipe bombs.
You just can’t face what happened at the Capitol Building, can you? You just talk about something else. You called it a ‘micro-riot’ and then Trump condemned it. Don’t you want to commit to an opinion?
I do hope they find who laid the pipe bombs at the RNC and DNC. Those are anarchists. The micro riot was minuscule compared to the stealing of the election. I do hope they find those perpetrators.
5 people dead and the Capitol trashed for a lie. The election wasn’t stolen. It’s just a trope desparately believed by people who have embraced a salesman. Digital Integrity will never try to bring their ‘analysis’ to a real court. It’s a charade.
“micro riot was minuscule compared to the stealing of the election”
Your two Tennessee Senators could not disagree more.
“Yesterday was a shocking day of lawlessness. We watched in horror as rioters breached the security of both Houses of Congress and inflicted significant property damage upon those historical halls.
Our Republic will rise above the chaos that ensued yesterday in the Capitol. These violent assaults on our democratic processes threaten to unwind the fabric of this country. As Americans, we must unite in our commitment to the Constitution and the rule of law.
We are grateful for the heroic law enforcement officials who helped restore peace, allowing us to complete our work. Last night we reconvened with our Senate colleagues to fulfill our constitutional duty to certify the 2020 election results and prepare for a peaceful transition of power. On January 20th, we will prove to the world that America is still the shining city on the hill.”
I didn’t vote for either.
You voted for the DEMS???
So these R Senators werent far right enough for you?
Well that is telling.
Seriously Stephen,
What in their statement do you find objectionable?
Stephen Paul Anderson says:
“It’s the Democrats who have allied with the Islamists.”
Obama took got Bin Laden.
Those were Navy Seals who took out Bin Laden. They had to pull Obama off the golf course. Were you one of the leftists who protested when we took out Soleimani? The repercussions have been just horrible.
He approved the raid two days earlier.
Ashli Babbitt, who was fatally shot while attempting to climb through a window during the Capitol riots, received a Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loan for her businesses in 2020. And she wasn’t the only one who has benefited from the government, but still went against it on Wednesday.
Multiple rioters who stormed the Capitol on Wednesday received PPP loans for their businesses in 2020.
Babbitt received $68,225 for Fowler’s Pool Service, a swimming pool supply store in Spring Valley, California. She was CEO of the business, which she reportedly co-owned with her husband, Aaron.
Jenny Cudd, who live-streamed herself confessing to breaking down House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office door, received one PPP loan and two Economic Injury Disaster Loans (EIDL) for a flower shop in Midland, Texas.
According to program rules, businesses may receive one PPP loan and one EIDL loan. It is unclear why Cudd, who is also a former mayoral candidate, received more than two loans.
Bradley Ruskelas, CEO of Customer Asset Consulting Group (DBA Cogensia), a data analytics firm in Schaumburg, Illinois, received $586,237 in PPP loans. Ruskelas was arrested and charged with unlawful entry.
And as previously reported, Richard Barnett, the man who was seen in a now-viral photo sitting with his feet up at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office desk and who stole mail from it, received $9,300 for his independent contracting business. He, too, has since been arrested.
It was noted at the time that the PPP loan could be considered socialism, which Barnett, like many of the other rioters, seems to be against. The irony of thisand that many of the rioters stormed the Capitol because they feel “oppressed”did not go over people’s heads. “He’s so oppressed that he got $9,300 in PPP money from the government he just looted,” one user wrote at the time.
Reuters did a fact check – which means asking profesors of math and stats – whether Benford’s law can be applied to elections.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-benford-idUSKBN27Q3AI
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
Whether to impeach tRump need not depend on whether he incited the attack on the Capitol or stopped just short of incitement. One proper ground for impeachment is rather simpler, and a matter of public record.
Last Wednesday, tRump publicly urged Vice President Pence to interfere with the counting of the electoral votes. He maintained that Pence, and Pence alone, could “send it back” to the states for the appointment of different electors. And he complained bitterly when Pence failed to do so.
Suppose that Pence had listened. Suppose that he had announced from the dais, when Arizona’s electoral votes were opened, “I am sending this certificate back to Arizona for the appointment of new electors.”
That would have been impeachable. The Twelfth Amendment required Pence, “in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, [to] open all the certificates,” at which point “the votes shall then be counted.” Whether the states ought to have appointed different electors was the subject of much litigation, now resolved. Whether these certificates were the authentic certificates, listing the votes of those electors they did appoint, even the President did not dispute. And whether or not the Electoral Count Act empowered Congress to vote on objections, Pence had no authority to decide the matter. For Pence to interfere with the count, hoping to remain in office beyond the end of his term, would have been a plain breach of his constitutional duties.
That being so, the President’s urging the Vice President to commit an impeachable offense was itself impeachable. Refusing to leave office is a high crime or misdemeanor if anything is. And soliciting a high crime or misdemeanor is itself a high crime or misdemeanor, even if unsuccessful.
Many people saw tRump’s efforts as foolish, and the hopes he held out of continuing in power (notwithstanding the electoral college vote) as unserious. But other people took them seriously. Thus the Capitol was attacked. The President’s faithlessness has cost five people their lives, and his impeachment is already overdue.
If Trump spits on a sidewalk, that’s impeachable. You’re a foooool.
Remember how people were dunking on Parler for being built on WordPress? Well, through a plug-in exploit, literally all the user data (including photos of verified state id cards) has been retrieved by hackers and is being posted online. Lmao
Hackers not only retrieved verified state IDs of Parler users, but also have their **posts that were deleted AFTER the coup attempt**.
Is it the Sean Hannity’s Lynda McLaughlin you have such high confidence in??? As a statistician?
“Experienced Executive Producer with a demonstrated history of working in the media production industry. Skilled in Digital Strategy, Advertising, Film, Media Relations, and Radio. Strong arts and design professional with a Master of Business Administration (MBA) focused in Business Administration and Management, General from Temple University.”
What is the history of this “Data Integrity Group”?
Ho,ho – you really are easy to manipulate by misinformation!
Fortunately, more and more republicans seems to bow to the reality.
hee hee
https://www.mediamatters.org/sean-hannity/sean-hannity-impressed-his-producers-attempt-overturn-georgias-presidential-election
As The Epoch Times noted, the “experts” in question were a team led by Lynda McLaughlin. The Epoch Times failed to mention that she is Sean Hannity’s radio producer.
McLaughlin did not mention Hannity in introducing herself while beginning her presentation, saying only that she had a background in “politics and media.”
Kind of like the “whistleblower,” huh. It didn’t matter that Schiff had hired several of “whistleblower’s” coworkers to his staff, right? So, it doesn’t matter who she is. Is the evidence truthful or not. The truth will out. And, there’s not a damn thing you can do about it.
hee hee
“…they had evidence proving that more than 30,000 votes cast for President Donald Trump were removed from his total. More than 12,000 of those, they claimed, were given to Joe Biden.”
Stephen
Exactly, how did they manage to change those ballots from Trump to Biden? Did they erase the black/blue ink and replace the name? The ballots were also hand counted, I believe.
From Georgia ballot:
1. Use black or blue ink to mark the ballot
2. Completely fill in the empty oval to the left of the candidate name or
choice in all races you wish to vote
3. If voting for a Write-In candidate, completely fill in the empty oval to the
left of the Write-In selection, then write the name of the write-in candidate
in the space provided
The New York State Bar Association (NYSBA) has received hundreds of complaints in recent months about Mr. Giuliani and his baseless efforts on behalf of President Trump to cast doubt on the veracity of the 2020 presidential election and, after the votes were cast, to overturn its legitimate results. As widely reported, these efforts included the commencement and prosecution of court actions in multiple states without any evidentiary basis whatsoever. In each and every instance, these actions were appropriately dismissed by the courts in which they were brought.
As the nation’s largest voluntary state bar association, NYSBA has a responsibility to defend and protect the rule of law. Based on these complaints, and the statement Mr. Giuliani uttered shortly before the attack on the Capitol, NYSBA President Scott M. Karson has launched an inquiry pursuant to the Association’s bylaws to determine whether Mr. Giuliani should be removed from the membership rolls of the Association.
Mr. Giuliani will be provided due process and have an opportunity should he so choose to explain and defend his words and actions.
This decision is historic for NYSBA, and we have not made it lightly. We cannot stand idly by and allow those intent on rending the fabric of our democracy to go unchecked.
Stephen,
Now even Forbes have had enough of the lies you and you likeminded fellows are spreading:
“Let it be known to the business world: Hire any of Trumps fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie. Were going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism wed approach a Trump tweet. Want to ensure the worlds biggest business media brand approaches you as a potential funnel of disinformation? Then hire away.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2021/01/07/a-truth-reckoning-why-were-holding-those-who-lied-for-trump-accountable/?sh=1f79932f5710
President Trump = 1, Stever Forbes = 0
Joe Biden will have a very, very difficult job making America great again.
…and to make Americans law abiding again. I thought republicans were the “law and order” party – well, even I can be wrong..
Republican Congressman Jim Jordan has long been one of the most dishonest, divisive, and deranged voices in politics. He’s never met a Donald Trump lie he didn’t want to amplify. Jim Jordan just got done leading the charge in trying to overthrow the election results. Now he’s trying to protect Trump from impeachment, even though Trump just got done inciting a deadly terrorist attack. Retired General Michael Hayden was having absolutely none of it. His response to Jim Jordan’s dishonest tirade: “Shut up.” That’s right, Hayden simply told him to shut up. We can’t think of a better way to say it ourselves. It’s clear that patriotic Americans are simply done with the fascist lunacy that the likes of Trump and Jordan are pushing.
General Who? You leftists love the military.
I forgot that Republicans traditionally have little respect for the military.
Leftists only like them when they can be used for a talking point.
‘Leftists’ is your ONLY talking point.
Conservatives love the military until they don’t like what they say.
1 Imagine spending the better part of the last five years in craven thrall to Trump, having your brain and ego melted by constantly being lied to.
2 Like a tongue-flapping pup hopping into the bed of his masters pickup on a jaunt to town
3 Marching up to congress on Donald’s orders to smash shit and then mill around aimlessly.
4 Then, the next day, the god and emperor you worship puts out a video cucking himself and bending the knee: “I’m sorry, those were heinous acts, p-please let me tweet again Jack!” You go home and hear that Biden won anyway and all of your favorite sources have posted your photo online and are labeling you a communist antifa actor.
5 The sun is going down and you are getting cold; you think to yourself, I was told there would be winning, but now you know that Donalds bellowing accusations about election fraud were bogus all along.
Yes, Tyson, how it must feel to storm the Capitol at your leader’s request, and then watch him say that you have “defiled the seat of democracy” and that “you will pay.”
If fate is kind to the US, that speech will take the wind out the sails of those who thought it a good idea to trash the Capitol. If not, those people and people like them who didn’t make it to Washington remain a probable threat to the US IMO.
Barry,
How did those decrements happen in Trump’s Georgia data?
You really can’t deal with the fact that Trump threw the rioters under the bus. Whenever you get faced with some hard reality you have to point somewhere else. It’s sad.
You leftists are out like a pack of jackals today. You think you’ve got Trump, finally. Nope, so sorry.
You leftist tools (Barry, Nate, Shashly, Svante, Muff) are a special kind of evil.
You’re insane. Deranged. Trump called on his followers to march on the Capitol and to “stop the steal.” Giuliani called for trial by combat, and a pro-Trump lawyer called for Mike Pence to be executed. A gallows was left outside the Capitol that day, people came with cuff ties and the intent – which they messaged about – to kill Pence and Pelosi.
Not just Trump, others also who whipped up an insurrection and egged on violence will be tried for their crimes.
You and all the people who are blindly loyal to Trump and can’t see what has happened here are deranged. This is unprecedented. Last time the Capitol was stormed it was an enemy from without.
The rioters weren’t taking back America. They were trying maintain the Trump regime by force.
You’re all sick in the head. Your views of the world and everyone not pro-Trump are twisted into a knot with Donald Trump at the centre.
My fear is that when Trump is gone the knot will remain.
The only violence was by the idiot who shot Ashli Babbitt. I suspect he’s the one who committed suicide. At least he did the honorable thing.
It’s hard to tell if he is the one because he had a mask on. It kind of looks like the guy. I know a lot of police commit suicide because of the pressures of the job. Whoever did it has/had to feel guilty shooting an unarmed veteran woman. Also, two of his fellow officers were right behind her. What if he had missed and hit one of them? Serious lack of judgment.
I think the gallows was the same one BLM used in August in front of the Capitol. What did Nancy Pelosi say? She called the feds in Portland Storm Troopers.
Analysis by an independent Japanese reporter says the shooting of Babbitt a coordinated effort. Doesn’t it make you angry? Even if you’re a leftist. Or, is it OK to kill Trump supporters?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nvqvvsqJ_s
You miserable POS.
A police officer was killed with a fire extinguisher to the head. Three other Trump supporters died – 2 of heart attack and one trampled to death by the mob.
NONE of them would be dead if a riot hadn’t been incited.
Disgustingly, the only death you speak of is the one with political mileage for your side.
You are filth.
The fire extinguisher to the head is NOT a fact. All those other people were adults who chose to be there. No, you POS leftist. You want the end of this country. What is it? You’re so miserable in Australia you want us to be as miserable as you?
The extremists who stormed the Capitol and are now threatening more mayhem at the inauguration and around the country are a threat to America. The Democrats have never been the demon the Republicans make them out to be. Sure, they are for equality, more social welfare, taxing the ultra rich and corporation more, and for more gun control and more aggressive than the Repubs on renewable energy targets.
But these are not reasons you tear a government apart by force. This is why you vote.
And when you lose the vote, you don’t claim fraud, lose law suits trying to prove it, and then decide to tear democracy down with your bare hands.
This is sedition and insurrection. Pure and simple.
The rioters don’t want a recount. They don’t want investigations. They want the election overturned. By force.
And you are in favour of that. You are in favour of overturning Biden’s certification by force. You will accept bloodshed to do it, if necessary.
https://www.axios.com/mccarthy-antifa-capitol-siege-trump-c5b347ad-f902-40f4-9f42-6120fa927137.html
House Minority Leader makes clear it was not Antifa
“The only violence was by the idiot who shot Ashli Babbitt.”
How can you deny the violence that we have all seen with our own eyes, Stephen?
WTF is wrong with you?
Again, Stephen, I will ask you the following.
As you can clearly see on the longer video, their were Congressmen just inside. Police protecting the door were threatened. When they left. The door was being bashed in. Then someone yelled that a gun was pointed at them. Moments later it was fired.
The police were there to protect the people inside the building. The people breaking in clearly were violent, and some threatened the VP and Congress.
If a group was violently breaking down the door of your house, and you used deadly force to stop them, would that be considered murder in Tennessee?
“Ma’am, what happened to you?
I got maced!
And what happened – you were trying to go inside the Capitol?
Yeah, I made it, like, a foot inside and they maced me!
What’s you name, where are you from?
My name is Elizabeth, I’m from Knoxville, Tennessee.
Why did you want to go in?
We’re storming the Capitol! It’s a revolution!”
That’s an actual interview on the day.
And she said that last bit like it should be self-evident, and it’s not fair that she didn’t get to storm the Capitol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTLXtE8ihcY
Revolution, lynching, I guess people stormed the Capitol for lots of reasons.
Yeah, she sounds tough. They should have shot her like Ashli. It sounds like they targeted all the women.
You really are a slime-bag, aren’t you? 5 people, and maybe 6 now have died as a result of that riot. The police officer who was killed by being struck on the head with a fire extinguisher was also a veteran.
None of them would be dead if Trump and co had not egged on a mob to storm the the Capitol.
Five people? The only slime balls here are the pathological propagandists.
Ashli Babbitt-murdered
Officer Sicknick-Cause of death unknown
Three other protesters-Heart Attack, Stroke, Medical Issue (Unknown)
Has anyone been charged with Sicknick’s death? Do you know what caused the decrements in Trump’s data in Georgia? Is the term “Blue Lives Matter” racist? Is it only black lives that matter?
Please show the evidence that Trump said to storm the Capitol?
Yes, I think those people showed a serious lack of judgment. That was not the time or place. They should have protested their legislatures back in their states. The legislatures are the ones who have allowed this to happen. I think Trump thought if enough people showed up then Congress might do the right thing. Fat chance. There’s no way Trump wanted violence. He isn’t a violent man. He uses persuasion with hyperbole.
What you mean apart from inviting “patriots” to Washington to “stop the steal,” advising that it would be “wild,” telling the crowd at the rally that “You don’t concede when there’s theft involved. Our country has had enough and we will not take it any more… And we fight. We fight like hell and if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore,” and telling his followers to march on the Capitol?
Giuliani on the president’s stage telling people it’s “trial by combat?”
That’s just the most obvious. But you also have four years of Trump excusing extremists, saying that there were “fine people” among white supremacists, and having to be brought reluctantly and rarely to condemn white supremacist and extreme right-wing groups.
His failure to condemn Lin Wood for suggesting Pence be executed.
Trump’s rhetoric has for the last few years enabled right-wing extremist groups who love him. He told the Proud Boys to “stand back and stand by.” He basically told them to get ready. Proud Boys were very present in the storming of the Captitol.
It’s not all Trump’s doing. This revolt has been brewed in US politics for years, which has turned bitter and hateful. A two-horse race with many of those engaged being largley tribalistic, especially on the conservative side. The Republican party has a lot to answer for.
But Trump was the trigger. He let the hate brew, he lied about election fraud and it was echoed by his enablers, he called up his forces, he pointed them at the Capitol, and he told them to fight for America.
I appreciate and respect guys like Wood and Giuliani. They see what the left is doing to this country. It is treasonous. Wood and Giuliani understand how dire our situation is. However, it is the wrong time and place. If a civil war happens, it won’t be this way. It will start with a state, then another state, then another. There will be a convention of states. Then the left might try to stop them. Then the people will enter the fray. It will be spontaneous. There will be no mistaking. However, I think it is several years away. First, we have a monster depression. The wars always start after the depression.
The only lie about election fraud is from the left, and you know it. And, still, you lie about it.
The next two years will be a monumental disaster for Biden and the left. Their dreams of utopia will be shattered. So sad.
“Proud Boys.” LOL. I think the boogeyman was there too.
Trump’s right. You don’t concede when there is a fraud. He hasn’t conceded, and he shouldn’t. He’s also not attending. And he shouldn’t. That’s the real reason Pelosi wants to impeach him. She’s a psychopath, but she’s shrewd.
“The only lie about election fraud is from the left, and you know it. And, still, you lie about it.”
No, Stephen. This is completely wrong. I’ve seen the rhetoric from Trump, I’ve seen it coming, how he would claim fraud just for losing. I’ve read afadavits and the complaints put to law courts, I’ve heard from the government agency tasked with election security, I’ve heard from Republican governors and secretaries of state, I’ve heard from William Barr and the FBI, and all these people are saying the election wasn’t stolen. I’ve watched 2 recounts of the original Georgia vote. I’ve seen claims clearly debunked, and then observed as the people who made the claims quietly drop it and not say, Yeah, I was wrong, but just move on to a different claim.
Because for these people the truth is not important. Only overtruning the election with calims of fraud.
I’m not lying. I am convinced you and many of Trump’s followers have been hoodwinked into believing the election was stolen. There are people who are still trying to drum up some evidence. Some of them are sincere, others less so. But it looks like the samer quality ‘evidence’ we’ve had all along.
The cynicism of challenging a change to election rules 12 months after the election happened, just because your guy lost. You know for a fact that these challenges would not have happened if Trump won in those states. It’s not about fraud, it’s about power. Reataining power for Trump.
I’m NOT lying. I’m looking at a broken country, where half the problem is that a huge number of people are seriously deluded, and are clutching at anything and everything they can to maintain the delusion, while ignoring the fact of recounts, of Republican authorities who voted for Trump confirming the security of the elections, courts, government bodies appointed by Trump, people appointed by Trump contradicting the message Trump and his allies have been pushing out.
You are misled, not me, Stephen. And you don’t know it.
So why the decrements in Trump’s data? Why the bellwether states? Why the 48% approval rating? Difficult to reconcile. Investigate the data. Do a forensic analysis. I’ll believe what the Data Integrity Group says. You?
Bellweather counties are not suspicious. Hillary won 14 of those in 2016 and still lost.
Trump’s national approval rating averaged in the mid to low 40s prior to election – completerly consistent with losing the elections.
The average of polls in the battleground states had Biden ahead in all of them just prior to elections.
This is where you say polling is BS, just after relying on polling to make your point.
No, I won’t believe the word of some group I can’t even validate is a real entity, and who won’t show the data they used.
Of course you believe them. They are telling you what you want to hear.
It doesn’t matter to you that what they are saying is completely unverified by another party. It doesn’t matter to you that their data is hidden from view. It doesn’t matter to you that they have not submitted their data and cliams to anyone else for testing. It doesn’t matter to you that this group has no website or web presence of their own.
You believe them anyway. Partisan bias swallows any skepticism you might have.
Egged on a mob. Did you watch any of the videos I posted? Most of the Trump supporters were yelling “NO,” “Not right,” to the people storming the Capitol. Are you going to blame all Trump supporters for a few fanatics? I’m not a Trump fanatic. But I love this Republic and hate what you leftists are doing to it. Not you, because you’re in Australia. You’re just part of the scumbag gallery.
You guys capitulated a long time ago. What’s it feel like for the Feds to have all the guns? Do you feel secure?
Isn’t it odd that blue lives matter now? Who has been supporting blue lives? Who has called for defunding the police? How many off- duty police officers were part of the Trump rally? Why is the left so concerned about blue lives now? Aren’t you all hypocrites?
Did you know Trump’s popularity is 48%? That poll was today. No President with that high of popularity has never, not been re-elected. That and the bellwether states. Difficult to reconcile. Is it not?
Do you know why Trump’s popularity is so high?
Prior to the election the average of Trump’s approval ratings were generally in the low to mid 40s. That’s consistent with not being re-elected.
You’re seriously going to bring up polling as if you wouldn’t have been rubbishing polls 3 months ago?
Because the average of all polls in each battleground state had Biden ahead.
This is your cue to rubbish the metric you’ve just relied on to make your point.
Trumps approval rating was 33 % today. A drop of 11% to Nixon levels. Quinnipiac.
“Did you watch any of the videos I posted? Most of the Trump supporters were yelling “NO,” “Not right,” to the people storming the Capitol.”
“Most?” I heard people saying “no” and “not right.” There were thousands of people there, a few hundred stormed the Capitol. I’m sure that the vast majority of those who stormed the Capitol are Trump supporters. They are also extremists who respond to the rhetoric of hate. Hate of the media. Hate of Democrats. Hate of government. Hate of those disloyal to Trump.
Trump has been flirting with anarchy since the elction, rejecting all norms of democracy, defying the peaceful transfer of power. Last Wednesday was the logical result of his signalling.
Donald Trump has divided the US like no other president for a hundred and fifty years.
I’m still not sure whether you approve of or condemn the storming of the Capitol, Stephen.
The Democrats have brought up polling for four years. If Trump’s number was 25%, you’d be crowing about it constantly. They’re not. They’re at 48%, but actually higher, probably.
Record low, 33%.
https://news.yahoo.com/president-trump-job-approval-rating-190337456.html
“Yes, I think those people showed a serious lack of judgment. That was not the time or place. They should have protested their legislatures back in their states.”
I didn’t see this before. Ok.
I’ve vented my outrage on this more than enough here.
Good luck.
The people voted, and the law has had every opportunity to weigh in on the election.
And a man, Trump, lost.
Keep seeing this quote that ‘we are nation of laws and not of men’.
So are we or are we not, Stephen?
We are. The Democrats don’t accept that. They believe their morality is superior.
Democrats are demanding Republicans be expelled from Congress. Who are the fascists?
Here’s some more leftists Stephen:
https://people.com/politics/trump-administration-officials-resign-following-riot-capitol/
You do realize almost every administration’s officials resign before the end of the term? No, you probably don’t.
No they don’t.
Yes, they do.
Mick Mulvaney says:
“…, I can’t stay here. Not after yesterday. You can’t look at that yesterday and think ‘I want to be part of that’ in any way, shape, or form.”
The problem is that many Trump supporters have been sold Big Lies.
1. DEMs are subhuman, evil communists, and cannot be legitimately elected.
2. Trump actually won by a ‘landslide’, and the Evil DEMs stole it.
Of course the reality is that DEMs are elected about half the time, and this is one of those. And their policies are not radical or evil.
Nate, what caused the decrements in Trump’s data?
Did it stand up in court? Where they under oath? Wheres the cross examination? What do the accused people have to say? Lets see the data.
Nope, none of that. Then it is hearsay.
You heard some people say stuff. You believe it. Great. Enough for sedition?
Another group of “leftists” telling Stephen he is totally lost.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/politics/joint-chiefs-memo-capitol-insurrection/index.html
775,000 people tune-in to watch Trump’s little speech on the border today. Have 775 people ever tuned-in to watch Biden talk about anything?
Have 81 mill. people ever voter for DT?
How many votes were switched? Do you know? Trump should invoke the Insurrection Act and stop this steal.
The Austrian leftist, with his sad tale of Kristallnacht, is telling us how we should be. You capitulated to the left a long time ago. STFU.
“Trump should invoke the Insurrection Act and stop this steal.”
You want a dictator.
There you said it. Feel better now?
America is not a country of laws, it is a country of a Dear Leader?
Stephen, you are on the Right. Youve been constantly saying that is the Left who are and have been the Authoritarians.
But now, here you are, promoting Authoritarianism.
And astonishingly, for all the same excuses that Authoritarians have always used.
Trump-appointed former chief of staff to the Dep of Homeland Security in August last year predicting what would happen if Trump lost the election.
https://youtu.be/KuqhhrmhfCI?t=315
This was a very prescient inside view. Says Trump was fanning the flames of unrest that could explode after an election loss, and would mount an attack on democracy.
Wow, quite on target.
Trump-Picked U.S. Attorney in Georgia Says There’s ‘Just Nothing’ to Back Up President’s Fraud Claims
The man that President Donald Trump directly installed last week as Atlanta’s top federal prosecutor to help support his claims of election fraud has concluded that there is “just nothing” to support the president’s wild theories. Trump appointed Bobby Christine as Acting U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia last week after the president expressed anger that the Justice Department wasn’t taking his baseless claims of election fraud in the state seriously enough, and after a recording emerged of his rage at Georgia’s top state officials demanding they “find” votes to overturn the results. But, in a Monday call with his staff that was obtained by the Atlanta-Journal-Constitution, Christine expressed his apparent surprise at the lack of evidence to support Trump. “Quite frankly, just watching television, you would assume that you got election cases stacked from the floor to the ceiling,” Christine reportedly said. “I am so happy to find out that’s not the case, but I didn’t know coming in.” Christine dismissed two cases on his first day in office.
https://ibb.co/9bnsDBD
President Donald Trump, infamous for refusing to pay his bills, is reportedly seeking to avoid paying his personal attorney and top enabler, Rudy Giuliani, the legal fees he owes the lawyer who spent months fruitlessly attempting to help Trump overturn the election.
The Washington Post and New York Times report that Trump and Giuliani’s relationship is souring and that the President has ordered aides to withhold any payments to the attorney.
Trump is reportedly displeased with Giuliani’s eye-popping price tag of $20,000 per day for his services and with some of the ways the lawyer attempted to fight the election results in the swing states his client decisively lost to President-elect Joe Biden.
Additionally, the White House is now rejecting Giuliani’s calls to Trump, according to the Times.
If Trump does ultimately refuse to pony up, at least Giuliani could still say he got something out of working for the President: stellar treatment for his COVID-19 infection last month.
Giuliani’s legal services in Trump’s anti-democracy crusade consisted of filing failed lawsuits based on bogus conspiracy theories and holding an absurd press conference at small landscaping firm “Four Seasons Total Landscaping” in the middle of nowhere.
News of Trump’s estrangement from Giuliani comes amid the fallout over the President encouraging his angry supporters to storm the Capitol after his “Stop the Steal” rally on January 6, during which he fed his followers lies about the election being fraudulent. The siege resulted in Trump’s second impeachment by the House.
Giuliani was at the rally as well, where the lawyer urged Trump fans to “have trial by combat.”
https://ibb.co/rHK54RR
Lawyer for the horned Capitol stormer says that he was invited to the Capitol by the president, and that Trump needs to own that and pardon the guy.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-lawyer-for-accused-u-s-capitol-rioter-says-trump-should-pardon-his-client/article_3bee278b-07f8-5d1b-b556-10f0e8d1bdf9.html
Loony horned guy has the right lawyer.
American Thinker Statement January 15, 2021
By Thomas Lifson
We received a lengthy letter from Dominion’s defamation lawyers explaining why they believe that their client has been the victim of defamatory statements. Having considered the full import of the letter, we have agreed to their request that we publish the following statement:
American Thinker and contributors Andrea Widburg, R.D. Wedge, Brian Tomlinson, and Peggy Ryan have published pieces on http://www.AmericanThinker.com that falsely accuse US Dominion Inc., Dominion Voting Systems, Inc., and Dominion Voting Systems Corporation (collectively “Dominion”) of conspiring to steal the November 2020 election from Donald Trump. These pieces rely on discredited sources who have peddled debunked theories about Dominion’s supposed ties to Venezuela, fraud on Dominion’s machines that resulted in massive vote switching or weighted votes, and other claims falsely stating that there is credible evidence that Dominion acted fraudulently.
These statements are completely false and have no basis in fact. Industry experts and public officials alike have confirmed that Dominion conducted itself appropriately and that there is simply no evidence to support these claims.
It was wrong for us to publish these false statements. We apologize to Dominion for all of the harm this caused them and their employees. We also apologize to our readers for abandoning 9 journalistic principles and misrepresenting Dominion’s track record and its limited role in tabulating votes for the November 2020 election. We regret this grave error.
Yep, the truth will come out!
Joint Statement from Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees
Original release date: November 12, 2020
WASHINGTON – The members of Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council (GCC) Executive Committee – Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Assistant Director Bob Kolasky, U.S. Election Assistance Commission Chair Benjamin Hovland, National Association of Secretaries of State (NASS) President Maggie Toulouse Oliver, National Association of State Election Directors (NASED) President Lori Augino, and Escambia County (Florida) Supervisor of Elections David Stafford – and the members of the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Council (SCC) – Chair Brian Hancock (Unisyn Voting Solutions), Vice Chair Sam Derheimer (Hart InterCivic), Chris Wlaschin (Election Systems & Software), Ericka Haas (Electronic Registration Information Center), and Maria Bianchi (Democracy Works) – released the following statement:
The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result.
When states have close elections, many will recount ballots. All of the states with close results in the 2020 presidential race have paper records of each vote, allowing the ability to go back and count each ballot if necessary. This is an added benefit for security and resilience. This process allows for the identification and correction of any mistakes or errors. There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.
Other security measures like pre-election testing, state certification of voting equipment, and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission’s (EAC) certification of voting equipment help to build additional confidence in the voting systems used in 2020.
While we know there are many unfounded claims and opportunities for misinformation about the process of our elections, we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too. When you have questions, turn to elections officials as trusted voices as they administer elections.
And he’s gone! https://tinyurl.com/Military-brass-band
Meanwhile, additional material concerning Crossfire Hurricane has been released. We know that Obama was in the loop because there is a record of meetings in the Oval Office.
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/rep/releases/judiciary-committee-releases-transcripts-of-interviews-conducted-during-oversight-of-crossfire-hurricane-investigation
“Former FBI Director Comey and his deputy Mr. McCabe, through their incompetence and bias, have done a great disservice to the FBI and DOJ, and the senior DOJ leadership who signed off on the work product called the Crossfire Hurricane investigation have created a stain on the department’s reputation that can only be erased by true reform.”
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/fisa-investigation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossfire_Hurricane_(FBI_investigation)
The Mueller Report found that the investigation “identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump campaign”, that Russia “perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency” and that the 2016 Trump presidential campaign “expected it would benefit electorally” from Russian hacking efforts.
Papadopoulos, Manafort and Flynn pleaded guilty. Roger Stone was pardoned by Trump.
Who are your trying to fool? I do not think that wikipedia links and talking points directed at misinformed idiots are a good way to make your case. The Horowitz report was very explicit, and the Durham report promises to go much further. The Mueller report has zero credibility. It made no attempt to reveal the fact, that was known to its authors, that the dossier was a complete fabrication originating from Clinton Campaign operation research (i.e. sleaze). Papadopoulos and Flynn were both improperly set-up for prosecution by sleazy prosecutors. Manafort’s crimes occurred years ago and had nothing whatsoever to do with Trump or his campaign.
” the Durham report promises to go much further. ”
Right wing media has to hang on to something…
But bear in mind that they hung onto the Seth Rich conspiracy until they were sued and forced to admit that it was fantasy, and to pay big bucks for this smear.
What’s the interest in Obama? Should he have been out of the loop?
Obama does not get to claim incompetence or stupidity. He knew exactly what Comey was doing, and expressed a concern that the “right” people be involved. Since the right people assigned personally by McCabe turned out to be the very sleaziest FBI agents in history, and one attorney who pleaded guilty to falsifying an email, I think Obama got just exactly what he was looking for.
Well I looked that up and the neutral read is that Obama wanted it handled correctly (there are other quotes on that, too), and the scurrilous reading is that Obama’s directive is a nod and a wink.
Was it ever in question that Obama was briefed sometime in 2016? just that the way you put it made it sound like this was a late reveal, hidden from view. But that doesn’t seem to have been the case.
The view of the majority on the Judiciary Committee is based largely on the interview of Dana Boente, which you can read here:
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Dana%20Boente%20Redacted%20FINAL.pdf
The minority position is quite different, but that’s hardly unexpected.
I read through that interview to get an idea of what the parties were hanging their interpretation on. As usual, when you go to source you find both sides are spinning it to their interests, and the truth is much mpore nuanced than the spin.
Did Obama try to “claim incompetence or stupidity” or is this yet more spin?
Obama was fully briefed by CIA and others about the Dossier and other matters. He was also briefed about the involvement of the Clinton Campaign. Text messages from the FBI love birds said POTUS wants to know everything. The final proof is the now famous “we went by the book”, CYA, email to self by Susan Rice as her last act before she walked out the door on 1-20-17.
That email has been in the news for 2 years.
“President Obama began the conversation by stressing his continued commitment to ensuring that every aspect of this issue is handled by the Intelligence and law enforcement communities ‘by the book’. The President stressed that he is not asking about, initiating or instructing anything from a law enforcement perspective. He reiterated that our law enforcement team needs to proceed as it normally would by the book.”
You seem to be energised by this, but I can’t figure out why.
Crossfire Hurricane was initiated in July 2016, months before the Steele dossier was obtained. That dossier was not the only impetus for the investigation.
The investigations have so far concluded that there was incompetence (17 errors), that at least 2 agents did not like Donald Trump, that 2 FISA warrants were wrongfully obtained, and that some details had been ommitted or fudged to acquire them. It has not been yet ascertained that political bias initiated or influenced CH.
After Barr’s surprise comments on the IG’s investigation and announcement of another review of the matter, we have one news piece that purports to have inside information on the Durham investigation that says there is no evidence of political bias. We will have to see what comes next.
Nice try. Pretending to be misinformed does not help your talking points. The 17 unexplained (no objective excuses) errors, that were all necessary to the applications, were committed by 3 separate teams hand selected by McCabe and approved by Comney on 3 separate applications. Do some science. What are the odds of random chance error vs deliberate corruption? Speaking of deliberate corruption, it was Adam (Shifty) Schiff who defied the majority congressional report with his own fraudulent report that claimed the Dossier had no part in the FISA applications. He had the facts and lied. Horowitz said the Dossier was central and essential. Who do you believe?
I’ll deal with the known facts and leave others to what they prefer to “believe.”
Believers tend to omit facts that are incompatible with their beliefs.
The question who you believe refers to Schiff and Horowitz. They tell different stories about the importance of the fake Dossier. Did you really not understand that? Are you claiming that the Dossier is factual?
Why on Earth would I capitulate to a stupid either/or on two opposed views when there are many?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steele_dossier#Dossier's_veracity_and_Steele's_reputation
To repeat what I said, “Crossfire Hurricane was initiated in July 2016, months before the Steele dossier was obtained. That dossier was not the only impetus for the investigation.”
You are relying on Horowitz’s view about the Steele dossier. Fine.
Is Horowitz also reliable when he says that there was no political bias influencing the initiation and pursuit of the investigation?
Or do you defer to these experts only when it suits the narrative?
If you want to argue against my position, by the way, you’d probably do well to find out what it is. That’s how I’m proceeding with yours…
Why on Earth would I capitulate to an either/or on two opposed views when there is a spectrum of views?
https://tinyurl.com/y3blo9p7
To repeat what I said, “Crossfire Hurricane was initiated in July 2016, months before the Steele dossier was obtained. That dossier was not the only impetus for the investigation.”
You are relying on Horowitz’ summation of the Steele dossier. Fine.
Is Horowitz also reliable when he says that there was no political bias influencing the initiation and pursuit of Crossfire Hurricane?
Are you going to develop the implication that Obama was involved in using the FBI for a political attack on the rival party, or shall we let the idea hang there untested (by you)?
Why on Earth would I play along with an either/or on two opposed views when there is a spectrum of views?
https://tinyurl.com/y3blo9p7
Which of these should I “believe?”
You are relying on Horowitz’ summation of the Steele dossier. Fine.
Is Horowitz also reliable when he says that there was no political bias influencing the initiation and pursuit of Crossfire Hurricane?
Are you going to develop the implication that Obama was involved in using the FBI for a political attack on the rival party, or shall we let the idea hang there untested (by you)?
Why on Earth would I capitulate to an either/or on two opposed views when there is a spectrum of views?
https://tinyurl.com/y3blo9p7
Which one should I “believe”?
You are relying on Horowitz’ summation of the Steele dossier. Fine.
Is Horowitz also reliable when he says that there was no political bias influencing the initiation and pursuit of Crossfire Hurricane?
Are you going to develop the implication that Obama was involved in using the FBI for a political attack on the rival party, or shall we let the idea hang there untested (by you)?
Sorry about the multiple. The server kept rejecting the posts, and then ended up posting every attempt on my last try.
Once again you put up your strawman and pretend to be stupid and misinformed. It is a simple question. Was the Dossier the basis for, and a necessary element of the now proven fraudulent FISA applications? If your position is that the FBI was dumb enough to use it, instead of corrupt and dishonest, that is a different issue. Adam Schiff published a written report stating that the Dossier was not needed for the applications. Horowitz says he has the facts that prove Schiff is lying, because he had all of information at his disposal.
I don’t know the answer to that question. I have read a range of views. You’re asking me to pick one of two. I have been reading up on this only recently. I haven’t read the 400 page Horowitz review. Have you read it all?
I don’t have a tribal stake in this. I don’t have to pick a side.
I will quote my post from upthread to you. I think you missed this bit:
“The investigations have so far concluded that there was incompetence (17 errors), that at least 2 agents did not like Donald Trump, that 2 FISA warrants were wrongfully obtained, and that some details had been ommitted or fudged to acquire them…”
So far as I’ve read I strongly agree with this statement:
“[The dossier is] a political Rorschach test. Depending on your perspective, it’s either a hoax used to defame a future president or a credible guide to allegations about Trump’s involvement with Russia.”
Now:
Is Horowitz also reliable when he says that there was no political bias influencing the initiation and pursuit of Crossfire Hurricane?
Do you agree with that conclusion from the same source you rely on for your view of the FISA applications?
I ask this because my intertest was initially piqued when you implied Obama had been involved in an abuse of power using the FBI to investigate political rivals. I’m not sure what your purpose is in deflecting, but it feels like the typical partisan bickering that is so tiresome.
Barry, the difference between us is that I am a scientist at heart, which means I believe in facts. More to the point, I am an engineer by profession which means that I do not have the luxury of experimenting or guessing. I have to use facts that are known, tested, and reliable. It is just the way I am. In my work, if I make a mistake that is not caught by someone else, people could die.
You, on the other hand, are a political person. You like to argue and play games. Here are the facts: The Dossier is fake. It was an FBI investigation involving research into the source that proves it is fake. They used a known fraudulent document in a formal court filing. Obama knew they were doing this because planning meetings took place in the Oval Office. There is no evidence or reason to believe that Comey was lying to Obama about what they were doing. Adam Schiff also knew this because he had access to all of the fully classified versions of all of the documents.
If these very corrupt public officials really believed that Trump is a threat to national security, they should have gone to the public with their case instead of breaking the law and lying about it. There is no proof that the FBI was politically motivated, but that is the best fit to the available evidence. John Durham is still investigating and is expected to bring additional charges.
A scientist’s interest?
Tim,
I asked you why you had mentioned Obama, as you had done a very political thing and implied malfeasance without stating it clearly. In your reply to that you doubled down on the implication:
“I think Obama got just exactly what he was looking for.”
When I tried to pin you down on this, you began your deflection to FISA applications and the Steele dossier, of which Obama had no part.
I kept trying to get you to return to the issue that had prompted my query and you ignored it.
A good scientst is clear-eyed in a discussion, knows what the topic is and sticks to it. Here you have failed. You have pushed your own narrative, deflecting and ignoring the issue I queried. Your vaunting of “facts” falls flat when you have not provided the empirical evidence for your assertions, and the admonition doesn’t paper over your dialectical faults.
A good scientist is as comfortable with uncertainty as with facts, and also is honest about what they do and don’t know. I’m very clear on who has been a political animal in this discussion.
I asked you if you had examined your data source (Horowitz report, 400 pages), and that if you agreed with its conclusions on the FISA applications, did you also agree with its conclusion that political bias did not influence the initiation or the process of the investigation.
Plainly, I’m asking you that because it undermines your original inferences regarding Obama. Is that why you have avoided addressing this point?
Ray Bolger comes to mind. Look it up!
My general knowledge is good enough to get the slur.
We both know what you are.
It is strange for this foreigner to watch images of armed civilians in tactical gear gathering near the Michigan state capitol.
It reminds me most of images in the Middle East, of people in black balaclavas in urban areas holding onto weapons.
A journalist that walked with the Proud Boys and other extremist, pro-Trump groups for the last few months, went with them into the Capitol on January 6.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/01/25/among-the-insurrectionists
This very long article is the best I’ve read to give an inside view of what drove the rioters, and how they are connected to the Repub;lican party and Trump.
For those with a shorter attnetion span, the same jounro’s footage as he walked into the Capitol with the rioters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=270F8s5TEKY
Rioter to cop inside the Capitol:
“You’re outnumbered. There’s a fucking million of us out there, and we are listening to Trump – your boss.”
Yes, it will be a very challenging task for Joe Biden to make America great again after four years of chaos!
Yes. Who would envy his job?
Recent events have exposed that white supremacy is a significant movement in the US. It didn’t suddenly expand under Trump’s watch, the ranks were already there, and they feel emboldened and enabled by Trump.
I don’t know how you deal with that. Not in any short term.
And he’s gone! https://tinyurl.com/Military-brass-band
As for former President Trump, one wants to be gracious as a man leavesbut what was departing was a national trauma.
His goodbye rally at Joint Base Andrews was intended to show the spirited and temporary receding of a titanic force. It didn’t. His remarks were wan and offhand, and the White House had to scramble to get people to come. His last words in public as president: “Have a good life. We will see you soon.” Then he flew off to Xanadu.
Shortly after, the alt-right group Proud Boys disowned him as a “total failure,” and QAnon message boards lit up. They had believed in “the plan,” when that conspiracy was always fantastical and bizarre. Now they were concussed. Mr. Trump was gone. Were we played? Yes, you were played. Now get offline and go find your life.
A final thought on Mr. Trump. It is one thing to come into the presidency with no particular class or dignity, as a person who knows “the price of everything and the value of nothing.” It is another and almost an achievement to leave the presidency like thatto have been untouched by the grandeur, unchanged by the stature and history of the office. None of it rubbed off and improved him. His supporters see this as proof of his authenticity, of his irreducible Trumpness. It is not. It is proof not that he couldn’t be reduced but that he couldnt be enlarged.
Anyway it’s over, and goodbye to all that.
Hollywood, you would do us a great kindness if you would stop for a while making movies and series that show how sick and corrupt politics is, and how conniving and immoral our political leaders. Your cynicism helped lower standards and reduce expectations. It had a leveling effect. After you gave them decades of fictional bums they one-upped you and started electing real ones. People could use a little faith now, and inspiration.
Those things were done. Now onward to new history.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/03/17/usps-ballot-fraud-investigation/
March 17, 2021 at 6:42 p.m. CDT
U.S. Postal Service investigators found no evidence to support a Pennsylvania postal workers claim that his supervisors had tampered with mail-in ballots, according to an inspector generals report allegations cited by top Republicans to press baseless claims of fraud in the presidential election.
Richard Hopkins, a mail carrier in Erie, alleged in November that he overheard the local postmaster discussing plans to backdate ballots received after the Nov. 3 vote and pass them off to election officials as legitimate. Working with Project Veritas, a nonprofit entity that seeks to expose what it says is bias in the mainstream news media, Hopkins publicly released a sworn affidavit recounting those allegations.
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) cited Hopkinss claim in a letter to the Justice Department in November calling for a federal investigation into election results in Pennsylvania, where Joe Biden beat President Donald Trump by more than 81,000 votes, and Democratic candidates outperformed GOP challengers in votes submitted by mail.
https://videoohotairybalka.ru/
Все обзоры смартфонов
Разные гаджеты
Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, and the MyPillow Guy Are in Huge Trouble
Aug 12, 2021
On Wednesday, a Trump-appointed judge spanked three Trump boosters for spreading Trump’s lies in a ruling that could cost them hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. District Judge Carl J. Nichols crafted a blistering opinion allowing three defamation lawsuits filed by Dominion Voting Systems against MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell and Trump’s lawyers, Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani, to move forward to trial.
Nichols’ opinion sets forth the false claims peddled by each of the three defendants, then picks apart the evidence they used to support it. The resulting decisionwhich suggests that Dominion might satisfy even the high bar set for defamation claims from public figures about political contestsis a beatdown. It was a small wonder on Thursday that Alan Dershowitz, appearing at Lindell’s MyPillow Symposium, denounced the Dominion suit as the “new McCarthyism.” If you are not free to lie brazenly about everything, always, causing untold financial and institutional ruin, what liberty can possibly remain?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/08/rudy-giuliani-mike-lindell-dominion-lawsuit.html?via=rss_flipboard
‘You’re kidding yourself’: Crenshaw spars with GOP activist who claims 2020 election was stolen
Aug. 12, 2021
Appearing at a GOP fundraising dinner in Illinois on Wednesday, U.S. Rep. Dan Crenshaw clashed with a conservative activist after insisting there was not enough election fraud to account for Donald Trump’s loss in the 2020 presidential race.
Crenshaw, a Republican from Houston who is considered a rising GOP star, told attendees during a Q&A session not to “kid yourself into believing that’s why we lost.” His statement runs contrary to claims by Trump and many of the former president’s supporters, who contend the election was stolen through a massive voter fraud scheme, of which they have yet to display proof.
“It’s just something you have to accept,” Crenshaw said. “Is there a lot of voter fraud? Yeah, there probably is. Enough that Trump won? No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Five different states? Hundreds of thousands of votes? You’re kidding yourself.”
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/gop-activist-dan-crenshaw-election-2020-stolen-16382965.php?utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter.com
Ремонт лобового стекла
Oath Keepers leader and 10 others charged with ‘seditious conspiracy’ related to US Capitol attack
By Katelyn Polantz, Hannah Rabinowitz, Holmes Lybrand, and Tierney Sneed, CNN
Updated 2:08 PM ET, Thu January 13, 2022
Jan. 6 Defendant Is First to Plead Guilty to Seditious Conspiracy
The plea by military veteran Joshua James of Alabama comes as a federal prosecutor opened the first criminal trial in connection with the Capitol riot
March 2, 2022 8:38 pm ET
https://www.wsj.com/articles/jury-set-for-opening-of-first-jan-6-criminal-trial-11646234704
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Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes convicted of seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 trial November 29, 20227:11 PM ET
Sedition (or seditious conspiracy, as federal law defines the crime) involves conspiring to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States … or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States.
Tellingly, the federal law against seditious conspiracy dates to the Civil War. The last time the government successfully prosecuted someone under the charge was in a mid-1990s case against the radical Muslim cleric Omar Abdel-Rahman and some followers for a plot to bomb New York City landmarks. In 2010, the Justice Department charged members of a bizarre far-right militia called the Hutaree with seditious conspiracy, but they were acquitted two years later.
Rhodes faces a maximum sentence of 60 years on all charges for which he was convicted, including 20 years for the seditious conspiracy count.
Kari Lake’s Lawyers Lose Election Suit, Win Sanctions. Well Played, Dersh! December 1, 2022 at 6:11 PM
Wait, Powell was lying this whole time?
Its almost like there wasn’t any stolen election.
But that would make Republιcans lyιng wιmps supporting insurrectionists.
There are legal ways to question an election. All she had to do was go to a judge and show proof of a possibility of voter fraud to access the voter rolls. You don’t get to just barge in and read the private data of 10s of thousands of Americans because you’re a sore loser.
Powell can prove Trump knew what he was doing was both illegal and wrong.
Attorney KEN CHESEBRO, who advised the Trump campaign on assembling a slate of Trump electors in swing states like Georgia, has reached a plea deal with Fulton prosecutors.
Chesebro agrees to: 5 years probation, $5,000 restitution, 100 hours community service, write an apology letter to citizens of Georgia, testify truthfully, no communication with media, witnesses and co-defendants, recorded proffer with prosecutors, provide documents and evidence